LC a vegetarian?

[Tri-me]

Three girls wow!

I enjoy discussing nutrition. A vegetarian diet like any kind of diet needs to be balanced. A person eating meat can be as malnourished as a vegetarian. I have met many people who are meat and potatoe eaters and a bit of other veg, occasionally a salad made of iceburg with a few slices of tomatoe and cucumber.....

WOW we are getting extreem thunder storms...with tornado warnings on the radio in New Brunswick

A 3 oz. serving of beef is an excellent source of protein, zinc, vitamin B12, selenium and phosphorus and a good source of niacin, vitamin B6, iron and riboflavin.

Broccoli, good source of vitamin A, riboflavin, ascorbic acid. strong disease fighter. Abundant in anti-oxidants, high in cancer fighting activities, rich in cholesterol-reducing fibers and it helps regulate blood sugar.

It is rare you see that meat is beneficial in fighting disease. There is new information all the time about the benefits of increasing the amount of vegetables in your diet. People with sugar issues need to be careful of fruit. Vegetables give an easily absorbable source of vitamins and minerals as well as fiber. Constipation is a huge problem in North America. Meat is a good source of protein and has vitamin and minerals, but these are available in other sources so a person who eliminates meat won't be deficient if they eat a well balanced diet. A vegan runs the risk of being deficient in B12. Excess mat protein can be taxing to the adrenal glands and kidneys. The high protein diets are very dangerous long term for this reason not to mention the saturated, trans fat and cholesterol content of meat and meat products.

Did you know that carbonated soft drinks remove the calcium from your body!!! After consuming a soft drink there will be calcium in your urine. A naturopathic doctor told me this. Soft drinks and growing childern is a pet peeve of mine. Aspertaine is a human made protein that is a combination of two amino acids, fenolanilin and something can't remember the names. Pregnant woman are advised not to consume aspertaine during pregnancy because it can cause brian damage to the delevoping fetus.

The Canada food guide is a good guide for proper eating. It suggests we eat 2 servings of meat and meat alternatives. A serving of meat is 50-100 grams approximately 2-3.5 oz is a serving. The key is the serving size.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/onpp- ... bow_e.html

I am avoiding the work I have to do, sorry if I sound preachy I am in sharing mode here. Need to eat better myself.

[congealed principle]

All waiters and waitresses loathe vegetarians. They come in and announce, "I'm a VEGETARIAN", their superior faces pale and pasty. They make unreasonable demands. Leave out this ingredient. Put in that herb. "You don't charge, extra for that, do you?" they ask. And smile their wan little vegetarian smiles. "Does bread come with it," they ask after redesigning the menu to their personal specifications. It is the signal that bread is going to be consumed in mass quanitities. Bread and more bread. They eat baskets and baskets of it. For the bread is free. So they eat and eat and eat BREAD. Then they ask for the check. They examine it minutely. Making sure you did not charge them for the goat cheese they asked you to sprinkle over the lettuce they ordered. They pay the bill and then ask you for hot water and lemons. They take the sugar from the table and make lemonade. Then they ask for a to-go cup.

I hope Leonard came to his senses and gave up vegetarianism long ago. I couldn't bear the thought of him amidst all those bread crumbs.

[Tri-me]

congealed principle ROFLMAO
That is funny, these people might do better to stay home, bet they leave a lousy tip too. I want to make a short film about a person I know who has a fond love of food, She dreamt that she ate her way out of a bucket of KFC, where is Freud when you need him. She is a healthy woman at her ideal weight who looks forward to her meals and feels sad when they are over. She loves to plan menus for film shoots..... this story could the anthisis (spelling) of her story.
Maybe we could write the script together LOL

I feel for waitors and waitresses and cooks having played these roles in my past career. I studied food and beverage management at George Brown College in Toronto and worked as a 3rd cook at a hotel, The Sky Dome and a vegan vegetarian restaurant in Kensington Market. The most difficult were the customers at the vegan vegetarian place.

Try working at a busy restaurant that has put club sandwiches on as the daily special for lunch. A table of six comes and figures it would be easier to have the special and they all want to adjust their sandwiches.

[Tchocolatl]

Simon, I heard a journalist (at the radio) who claims to be a fan, saying that she asked a friend who works in a restaurant where he goes often to call her when he was there, only for her to go and see him by the window She did not name the place, though, I don't know if it is there or not.

Tri-me, I don't think that you are preaching. I think that people who have difficulties to challenge their old comfortable ideas are resisting by saying that people who came with new (to them) ideas are preaching

Greg and Annaedith, I guess these ancient "rituals" around the slauthering of animals are part of the search for the purity. They had a lot of religious obligations also while regarding the food, for example, they had to prepare the food on a hard rock surface only - I saw some of their "facilities" of the time while visiting the exposition "Les manuscripts de la Mer morte" (I saw the original documents btw). It was fascinating - I guess this is because this is more easy to clean, and an non attractive playground for bacteria. So this was part of a code of hygiene.

Like many rituals they are done because the father of the father of the father of the father etc. had done it like that, and the meaning is lost. If there is any purpose for this to continue but the tradition, I would like to know.

The same thing goes with the pigs. Their flesh were easily get full of parasites, then when people eated the meat... but a certain religion forbid to heat pigs, even though the situation have changed.

[Tchocolatl]

congelated principle They say that Hitler was a vegetarian, but vegetarians say he was not, he was just put on a vege diet by his doctors, diet that he never followed, they say. I don't know, but certainly it does not make all "good" people to eat vege. I was once "Great Priestress" in a "vege temple", and I saw all sorts. Macrobiotics were the weardest of all. No. It was the Realians. At the time, my favorite bad word, was "meat". When something went wrong, like let say electricity shortage, I was going "Oh! meat!" You should have seen the faces of some clients, then...

But some other vege where very healthy in their heads and bodies as well.

For me, I would not have objection to be vege all the time if I could be sure the food is "bio". Otherwise, I would be afraid that the tomato contains only water. So to speak. Also regarding iron. It is more easy to have it through the red meat. Or am I wrong on this?

But I also think that it depends of people. Some people are more carnivore and other herbivore. They must follow what suits best for them.

Tri-me, about your ghost. I hope that you are eating enough. I mean, those skeletons, I mean, models that are supposed to be the summon of beauty (I think this is too skinny, to be slim is pretty put this is skinny) are always hungry or if not they are sick (what is the name of this sickness? Anorexie).

Here a few tips.

Whe have to eat more than 3 times a day (a little quantity at the time) because the organism doles less fat if it "knows" that it has food regularly. Otherwise it put itself on a mode "starvation" which means that when food arrives, it is doing more reserve (fat) to fight the scarcity (good survival behaviour... a few century ago). In the same pattern of idea do not starve yourself, because when you restart to eat normally you'll produce more fat then ever. So the best solution is to eat when you are hungry but be careful of the food you are eating (of course) AND HOW YOU EAT. This is very important. Often we are eating too fast. We are suppose to chew up until the food has the consistance of a soup before swallowing the food. This is required for an optimal digestion, first, and second when the signal of fill came, this is not allowing excess. It is rare that people continue to eat after they have had the signal of fill. So if in 20 minutes (the average time it takes for the signal to appear) one plate is eaten, instead of two.... the conclusion is easy to guess.

Also.

Do not eat often things that have sugar WITH cream - the worst association to produce fat, i.e. coffee with... sugar... and cream and check the dessert that contain such. No meet in dessert, but...

[annaedith]

you're right, choco and tri-me and simon. it's mainly a matter of paying attention. the worst thing are people following some rules or ideas they've learnt somewhere and not thinking about it. that's why i think it's dangerous to promote new diets, lifestyles etc. as being the only healthy, happy, succes-guaranteed path. there are always some people around who make a religion out of it! when thinking about it, it seems that i got this view from my veterinarian studies: being a vet, one will often be asked about this or that method. and in this position, it is wise to give good information and to warn instead of promoting somethimg.
hitler really was vegetarian as far as i know. and he is said to have been a friendly person who loved his family and his dog... it is so terrible from what unexpected origins such a monster can come. even when learning again and again how it all happened, i'm not sure this will prevent any country from going this way again. it is essential to stay informed and recalling it again and again.

[Tri-me]

Yes being a vegetarian does not make you a nice person, being a Buddhist automatically makes you wonderful

I have heard of people who try to make their cats and dogs vegetarians, I feel this is very dangerous.

This is the strangest diet I have heard of.

http://www.breatharian.com/breatharianism2.htm
Bruno: What is a definition of a Breatharian?

Wiley: A Breatharian is a person who is in alignment with the philosophy of Breatharianism, just as a Catholic is a person who is in alignment with Catholicism and a Mormon is a person who is in alignment with Mormonism. Whether a Breatharian eats solid food or not is a choice, not a demand. Vegetarianism is relative to eating mainly vegetables for food. Fruitarianism is relative to eating mainly fruits for food. Breatharianism is relative to the breathing of air for food. The average person breathes 110 lbs of air per day. Air contains the basic building blocks for all physical matter, namely four gases, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide and oxygen. Unfortunately there are many additional poisonous substances in the air that greatly diminish the proper assimilation of these gases, preventing their being used to sustain the human body sufficiently. Common sense dictates that if you can't get enough nutrients or stimulation from the food you taking, whether it is solid, liquid of air, you might have to use an alternative source. This would be solid or liquid food for the Breatharian.

[Simon]

Tchocolatl

Moishe's is actually on the second floor. It doesn't have street level windows, which I suppose must be nice when your're a celebrity dining out and trying to avoid the pack of your fans wondering if you eat your fries with ketchup or mayonaise.

One poster here, Muddymuddledduck, was a waiter at Moishe's. He would be the one to ask. We can read his account of LC's visits from the following old thread, but no mention of the content of the plate:

Leonard "the carnivore" Cohen

I don't know LC personally, but I don't like to think of him as a waiter's pain in the neck, vegetarian or not. The waiter from the bagel shop across Portugal park says he's very nice and friendly with everyone there.

LC is probably vegetarian when at Mount Baldy and maybe at home. But dining out or at friend's might be different. Many vegetarians will eat meat to avoid being rude to their hosts (and even to their waiters).

Kind of a strick vegetarian, but considerate social omnivorous...

[Tchocolatl]

"Moishe's is actually on the second floor. "

You told me.

Ladders are existing you know

Interesting, your theory about the "why" and the "maybe" but I imagine that he does not give a damn about being spotted by fans, after all, this is part of the job, and an indice of popularity and interest from his public.

Anyway, this journalist just wanted to see the man in the flesh, as she was so fan and her friend told her about him going there often, and not to spy his alimentary habits (on which Anjani Thomas gave us a hint : the tenzo capable to serve great wine with Kraft Dinner) she was telling this in the middle of a discussion about the phenomenon of being a fan.

I could not imagine Leonard Cohen being unpleasant with a waiter either, nor me asking a waiter if he eats k. or m. with french fries. This said without any will of being strick, trick, sick, strict, sorry, about the fans' habits. Of course. There is all kinds of fans.

[Tchocolatl]

Annaedith, to try to understand (I still do not understand, though) I have read bio, and "mein kampf" I little, and the man was exceptionally stuborn. Not so gentle, but with good intentions to save humanity. These times were extremely troubled, very poisoned, really. But something in "Mein Kampt" retained my attention, while he was talking about the Jews, he said that at some point he began to hate them. So I guess that hatred is the beginning of the end, the seed of all cruelty, and some very troubled times are a perfect ground for the seed to grow. I don't know.

Yes, what is scaring me the most, is this so much ordinary human side of the man. The men, the women who have participated.

All there is to know about Adolph Eichmann

EYES - Medium
HAIR - Medium
WEIGHT - Medium
HEIGHT - Medium
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES - None
NUMBER OF FINGERS - Ten
NUMBER OF TOES - Ten
INTELLIGENCE - Medium

What did you expect?
Talons?
Oversize incisors?
Green saliva?
Madness?

Leonard Cohen in Flowers for Hitler

What is scaring me sometimes, is to see that this could be again, human being being a wolf for human being, so easily, because the human values are getting less popular than ever since the WWII years in favour or "rationality" (which is always ar rationalization of the irrationality of some control freaks I mean, real ones.)

Tri-me, excuse me if I have to do the devil's advocate, I have nothing against buddhism or about you personally, and I know you are jocking, it is just, that... this side of me has to stress about Chinese being buddhists. I did it. Besides, you look to me a very nice person, whatever you are cheerish in term of food and philosophy.

[Steven]

Tchocolatl,

The leadership responsible for orchestrating the tragedies were
psychopaths as indicated by their performance on Rorshach
tests, interviews and other methods of evaluation prior to
their trials in Nuremberg. Of course, their actions, in and of
themselves were psychopathic. I've read the transcripts of
Eichmann's interrogations subsequent to his capture in Argentina
by the Israelis as well as first hand accounts by those that
apprehended him. They too are chilling, for reasons that I
don't even want to think about. Most chilling, is that
many "normal" people were complacent, or eager, in fact,
to participate in barbarism.

It's up to each person to choose which qualities of character
they cultivate and develop. Failure to choose and cultivate, is
to leave oneself especially vulnerable when and if times become
most frightening.

[annaedith]

hi tchoco and steven,
it is right that all those monsters were just ordinary people without any special background. and that is scaring. that they were found to be psychopaths later may not only have come with the changes in themselves after all they did (at some point, killing becomes daily work), but also with the altered perception after the war. everything that was associated with nazism was illegal, discriminated, (and that is good so (even though it goes that far that an intelligent person in germany would never put up a german flag in his garden). ) but they weren't mad, they just followed an idée fixe.
and you're so true in saying it is even more likely to happen. all the uncomfortable rules that were there to make a life in community easier have been abandoned. good and right is what brings money, but nobody has to worry about respect (p.ex for old people), compassion, modesty,... rules made by churchs and society don't have to be followed anymore. and in this area without any hold, people often feel unsure - and are ready for whatever leader who gives them rules.
another thing i recently came about, thinking about the vegetarian topic: things like killing animals are so far from a normal person's live, and though most of them do eat meat and accept that animals are killed. but the thought of killing an animal is as far as killing a person. so maybe, as they know that killing of animals has to be done and is done, the thought of killing a person seems not more unlikely to many?

[Steven]

Hi Annaedith,

Your reply is thoughtful. In my opinion, those that were leaders
were psychopaths and the nature of their work only further
made their core personality disorder worse.

As for following idee fixe, it seems to be normative for people to
do so, across cultures and history. There was a recent public radio
broadcast program containing interviews with people that grew
up in the segregated south of America. By and large, these
people accepted that because things were the way they were,
they were properly as they should be. I suppose it is no
different than generations of oppressed people in India held
down by what was their caste system, or the Church's historical
penchant to enoble and enable hatred of those that were disbelievers...

As for vegetarianism, I'm amazed by those that eat meat but are up
in arms against all hunting. They eat meat purchased in stores,
their sensibilities maintained by the distance emotionally and
visually from the slaughterhouse. Some of the most humane
and environmentally sensitive, caring people, are in the
ranks of hunters who accept their part in the food chain and
value and appreciate the meat they harvest from the wilds.
Vegetarians don't have the last word on humane, nor do those
that consume meat, those that hunt, and those that don't.

[annaedith]

hi steven,
i think you're right. let's hope (though all what we're experiencing nowadays) that the ideas followed by coming ages will be better ones. but i'm afrais that's only a hope.
and this hunting point is good. i also think that those people that still are in connection with those parts of life that are usually almost denied to exist, like slaughtering, hunting, but also people dying, getting old, those have the most senseful view. living in an artificially created happy micro-world may be a solution for feeling some hapiness, but it can't stand any contacts or discussions with happenings from the "outside".
it is so nice to see that many people here think of such things, are aware of the problems of our lifestyle and have interesting and senseful views of it. in daily life, i often see the opposite.

[Stranger]

I think they were normal people, like we are; who slided very fast down a slippery slope, like we can do; and who committed horrible crimes, like we can do when the circumstances are there and we don't realise that we are sliding down. As long as we don't say "I would never do a thing like that", there is a chance that we actually won't.