Four "I's" are better than One

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:46 pm

After ploughing though a very difficult and sophisticated essay in literary criticism called "Leonard Cohen and the Aesthetics of Loss" by Winfried Siemerling which mostly focused on "Beautiful Losers" I gathered that Leonard does address us from various positions as a literary device. Thus, the guy in the famous blue raincoat is most likely Leonard or the subject of the song as seen from the point of view of others he called "we". ("To see ourselves as others see us would from many a blunder free us".--Anon.) View from outside the ego (and senses) is often sought after and attained by mystics. This essay is going back to the library today so I thought I'd treat you all to a sample paragraph:

"On the other hand, this heteroglossia is topped by the polyglossia of the translation, which, repeating each group of words in the other language, evokes a community repeating phrases of a prayer spoken by a priest: translation becomes prayer. "Prayer is translation" (60); with these words F. handed 'I' the English-Greek phrase book that inspires the end of Book I."
p. 57 , Op. cit. Siemerling "Discoveries of the Other" U. of Toronto Press 1994

jurica · Post by **jurica** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:56 pm

interesting.
i agree that the-guy-in-the-blue-raincoat is most probably LC. he owned a blue raincoat, i think (read somewhere). too bad my english is far too poor to understand the quotation beneath...

Rhodes · Post by **Rhodes** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:05 am

jurica wrote:interesting.
i agree that the-guy-in-the-blue-raincoat is most probably LC. he owned a blue raincoat, i think (read somewhere). too bad my english is far too poor to understand the quotation beneath...

That quotation was in English...?!

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:18 am

It would be just as intelligible if it were in Croatian. It was in Scholarese--a professional language apparently designed to exclude most of the uninitiated world. The medical and legal professions likewise have their own language. I think you have to be a professional in linguistics and philosophy to understand it. Damn this tower of Babel, why can't we all talk to each other? "Polyglossia" I think, means "many tongues" and "heteroglossia" might mean a lot of different tongues. So it's something about translation but the meaning is still no clearer. Judith Fitzgerald might be called upon to complicate the issue even further.

jurica · Post by **jurica** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:57 pm

i think i pinned the difference between polyglossia and heteroglossia!!!

the line should read: 'The piece is written in diferent styles (as if many different people were writting it) - this is heteroglossia - but it is also written in different languages - polyglossia. What we have is a piece that could have been written by different people in different languages.'

now i just have to spend few more hours to pin what the f--- it has to do with PRAYER and PRIESTS!

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Brilliant! Whether that's what the author meant or not it's a good idea for a novel

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:55 pm

"Prayer is translation" could mean that when you finally get the words in your own language you understand them. This may refer to his being in Greece, hearing the prayers of the Greek Orthodox Church, hearing the congregation repeat them but not being able to understand them. Thus the English-Greek phrase book.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:18 am

Even though some have issues with Judith Fitzgerald's writing, I find it both amazing and enjoyable

. Whatever Winfried meant by what she said, I'd easily bank on Judith's having made it far more accessible to the layperson.

~ ya' got that right, Jurica, on your last line. Lightning's right. A novel in that fashion would really be heteropolyglossistic

!

Now, I have to hunt down Kush's visuals of a woman cupping water in her hands, from the river, as he leans down. How beautiful

.

~ Lizzy

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:38 am

"Prayer is translation" might also mean passing from a physical to metaphyical consciousness. In the Christianity death is sometimes referred to as "being translated."

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:34 am

I wasn't aware of that phrase in Christianity. My familiarity with it is in the 'spiritual,' mystical, metaphysical communities.

jurica · Post by **jurica** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:19 pm

this is great!
one can always enjoy analysing analyses of poetry/prose. it's so great how they tend to have multiple layers and different, hidden meanings themselves!

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:55 am

Shakespeare uses the word 'translated' to mean changed or transfigured, so it probably was used in that sense in the English version of the Bible.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:04 am

You could well be right on that, Linmag, with the King James version originating from England. I've just not heard it in common usage in Christian 'communities.' However, I've certainly heard it used elsewhere.