But for me you SHOULD make an exception...

[Athnuachan]

Noticed a comment on the Paris thread about security men pushing someone who was only waiting to speak to Roscoe or Raphael.

Of course nobody wants to see anyone manhandled by security men, but what would happen if every one of the 20,000 present wanted to speak to Roscoe or Raphael? No doubt most of us would like to do so, but would not impose ourselves on them.
What makes some think they are exceptions?
How would these people feel if, coming out after work, they found a queue of people waiting to speak to them, asking for autographs, etc.?

Of course Cohen himself would be pestered to death if he wasn't whisked away so efficiently after each concert...

[HelenOE]

First, I'm all in favor of the efficient whisking-away of Mr. Cohen. Fan-contact when the fans show up in numbers is an exhausting and stressful thing, even for stars who are much younger and much more extroverted than LC. He really does give it all he's got onstage, he's earned the right to be done, gone and out of there afterward.

Second, I have never met anyone in the UHTC so I can't say what their opinions on the matter are, but I do have an embarrassingly large amount of experience waiting around after "Weird Al" Yankovic concerts (same phenomenon but on a much smaller scale). Al has a loyal and enthusiastic fan base, some of whom have been following him for 30 years, and it's an open secret that Al does often meet fans after shows. Even so, the number of fans who try to stay & see if he'll be coming out is a vanishingly small percentage of the audience. He doesn't have 3,000 people waiting to see him. He might have 15 or 30. If Leonard Cohen himself did a meet & greet (perish the thought), it would be an unworkably large number of people, but it wouldn't be 20,000. But band members are a different proposition. They exist necessarily in the shadow of the marquee name, there is a much smaller number of people who want to talk to them, and the ones that do are probably actually fans of that musician's work, not just fame-bedazzled. I don't know of any musician who really minds being told that somebody enjoys his or her playing. This sort of distinction is probably beyond the pay scale of people working security at a huge venue like the 02 or the Sportpaleis, but it does exist. I don't see anything inherently wrong with talking to band members as long as you're not inconveniencing them (rude) or trying to use them as a conduit to their boss (much ruder).

[lizzytysh]

Well said, Helen. From what I've seen, the Cohen fans are quite respectful of the band members, too.

[Athnuachan]

From what I've seen, the Cohen fans are quite respectful of the band members, too.

And so they should be!

You miss the point, of course. It's not that the Pesterers (as I call them) are in any way unpleasant to the band members.
It's just that they assume the right to approach them. I heard one woman last year, when a security man tried (politely) to dissuade her, proclaim "But X always speaks to me ! " When poor X sees her bearing down on him he probably thinks "Oh no, nor her again! ", but is too polite to tell her where to go! They probably see it as an occupational hazard, and are perhaps willing to take the heat off LC himself.
Of course only a minority behaves like this. Wearing a lanyard gives the occasional person an inflated sense of her own importance!
It always seems to be she after him - do some men pursue Sharon or the Webb sisters? Haven't seen that!

[HelenOE]

I don't know if we can infer what's going on in the mind of a band member and use that as a basis for action (or inaction). I don't see them as sacrosanct. They're human beings, one is allowed to speak with human beings.... and conversely, they're also allowed to say "Sorry, it isn't convenient right now" and then it's incumbent on the fan to take that "no" in good grace and go away smiling politely.

On the other hand, in the context of a concert, Mr. Cohen is not merely a human being. There are so many people there who see him as a hero, an inspiration, an avatar of spiritual enlightenment, the closest thing they know to God... you get the idea. Nobody can be expected to shoulder that kind of burden, and I'm glad they've come up with a way to get him out from under it.

[Athnuachan]

I don't see them as sacrosanct. They're human beings, one is allowed to speak with human beings...

So the band members are human? Now there's a revelation!
Here's another: So is Leonard Cohen.

Anyone who sees him in any other light is sadly deluded...
(He tried to warn us: " He knows he's really nothing but the brief elaboration of a tube". )

[HelenOE]

I don't see them as sacrosanct. They're human beings, one is allowed to speak with human beings...

So the band members are human? Now there's a revelation!
Here's another: So is Leonard Cohen.

Anyone who sees him in any other light is sadly deluded...
(He tried to warn us: " He knows he's nothing but a brief elaboration of a tube". )

Of course Leonard Cohen is human. But if he meets fans in any quantity, he'll be meeting people who see him as someone larger than life, in any one, or in several different ways all at once, and that's exhausting and difficult to cope with. There's less of a mismatch between perception and reality when it comes to the band members, so less stressful for them to deal with their (smaller) public.

[Athnuachan]

They're (the Band members) human beings, one is allowed to speak with human beings.... and conversely, they're also allowed to say "Sorry, it isn't convenient right now" and then it's incumbent on the fan to take that "no" in good grace and go away smiling politely.

How cloyingly "have-a-good-day"-ish.
The Irish equivalent would be ".... OFF" !!!

[HelenOE]

Huh? I don't think the UHTC speaks Irish...

[Athnuachan]

Huh? I don't think the UHTC speaks Irish...

That's "Irish English". Get used to it, sensitive souls who hope to attend Cohen events in Ireland - you will hear it a lot.
Now the Irish language itself has an amazing range of curse words, but don't worry - you won't understand those!

Amused to see "Fuck off" bleeped in my previous post ( presumably by some moderator? ) when fuck remains uncensored in many other posts, especially in the Tweets which now litter this forum.

Anyway, who was it who said that there are no bad words? Ah yes - "Ladies and Gentlemen...Mr.Leonard Cohen".

[Goldin]

There are no bad words. There are bad thoughts, I believe.

[Athnuachan]

There are no bad words.

I agree.
So does LC. (Or at least he did in "Ladies and Gentlemen... Mr. Leonard Cohen" )

Later edit:
I watched this again since. it's a great moment!

The year is 1964.
LC is preparing to record "A kite is a victim".
He is warned: "Any place you come across a dirty word we'll have to delete it."
There is a brief silence.
Leonard's expression would curdle milk.
Then he responds:

"Well, there are no dirty words - ever".

[Goldin]

Actually, I meant that the four letter word itself isn't something dirty, but when we put this word in context, in a concrete situation, it could be insulting. Rather obvious idea, I know.

Tweets, that's another story. Helen documents a very interesting source. We can find such words in quotations in academic researches. But we don't expect to read them in the direct speech of the researcher himself.
That's less obvious idea.

LC sometimes use this word during his concerts (let's leave alone his books for a moment). I can recall just a few examples, however, covering several decades, from 1970s till 2010s. As for me, he does it brilliantly. Rather eloquently and funny at the same time. Rarely, also. Very rarely indeed.
It would be great if we could use at least this single word with his elegancy! (But I'd prefer to use words like "love", "naked", "baby" instead )

[HelenOE]

especially in the Tweets which now litter this forum.

Aw, come on. In response to the complaints of forum members, I have been confining my littering for some time now to two easily-avoidable topics. If you think they're trash, all you have to do is stay out of the wastepaper basket.

My "Irish" comment was meant to mean (maybe I should have employed a translator) that I couldn't imagine anybody in the UHTC band recommending that particular four-or-seven letter course of action to a fan. They might want to, but I'm sure they'd find a more courteous form of words.

[ladydi]

Goldin...I do like your selection of words

Helen...I love your tweets and have from the moment you started. You've expanded upon the tweets Linda shared during concert days. Very special.

Athnuachan...methinks you are a reincarnation of someone who has been curiously silent on the Forum for several months, but you seem not to have changed much.

Many thanks again to Helen and others who share enlightening moments of Leonard.