Poetry's for Poofs.

Andrew McGeever · Post by **Andrew McGeever** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:33 am

Poetry's for Poofs.

The man in seat B.10 on the Carlisle-
Waverley train inquires; so that's
a letter yer writing then? I rest
my pen on our table, reply
just sketching a poem, ken? He folds
his tabloid, Rangers lost, declares
that poetry's for poofs. At Carstairs

two hobos, Yeats and Lorca, leap on board.
With arguments and readings from their works
they forge a case for poetry: I'm hooked
on every word. Outnumbered and confused,
he quits at Haymarket, giants in pursuit.

Come Waverley I survey what's left:
a rolled-up Sun, an unfinished sketch,
the stubs of Yeats' and Lorca's cigarettes.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:23 am

Hi Andrew ~

This is a very interesting one capturing some humourous moments on a train. I'll need to read it again once or twice to get the full effect of it all.

~ Elizabeth

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:44 am

The Sixth...
All hated Whiggery; but what is Whiggery?
A levelling, rancorous, rational sort of mind
That never looked out of the eye of a saint
Or out of drunkard's eye.
The Seventh. All's Whiggery now,
But we old men are massed against the world.

[...]

The Sixth. What schooling had these four?
The Seventh. They walked the roads
Mimicking what they heard, as children mimic;
They understood that wisdom comes of beggary.

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:38 am

Since Andrew posted his remark in the "Dancefloor" thread about the less obvious meanings of the places mentioned in this poem, I re-read the lines, and re-assembled what I know about Lothian locations. It is not much I came up with, but it might be helpful.

Carstairs:
1. The village of Carstairs, Lanarkshire is a very old and very beautiful place made a "Royal Burgh" as early as 1128.

2. Carstairs Junction is where the Glasgow trains join those coming from Carlisle.

3. Carstairs State Hospital is the most (in)famous "secure psychiatric care facility" in all of Scotland and Ulster. Thus it is prison and asylum in one. You'd find the Hannibals from Scotland and Northern Ireland there.

Haymarket:
1. My rough estimate is that three fourths of Edinburgh hotels are located in the Haymarket district. (Try googling for "Haymarket Edinburgh" and the first few pages will be filled with links to numerous hotels.)

2. Haymarket District is located in the West of Edinburgh following the line of the A8 from Haymarket Station to the Gyle Centre. In its centre is Edinburgh Zoo.

Waverley:
1. Waverley is the terminal station.

2. Riding to Waverley you really arrive in the Heart of Midlothian. "Princes Street" is around the corner, the Museum, the Castle, the Palace of Holyroodhouse, Rose Street ("Pub Row") - everything's within five minutes walking distance.

So it seems the hobos, the Lorca's and Yeats's in Woody Guthrie's footsteps ("This train is bound for glory, this train."), board the train at the asylum, and they hop off close to the Zoo, while our poet doesn't stop prematurely, but pursues his course to the end, to the very heart.

Cheers
tom

PS: "Rangers lost" - great news!

Andrew McGeever · Post by **Andrew McGeever** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:48 pm

Dear Tom,
You have surely done your homework on this one!

Yes, Carstairs had a double meaning: where the trains stopped, briefly, to allow passangers to change for Glasgow or Edinburgh, and yes, it was, and is an asylum for the criminally insane.
I couldn't have Woody Guthrie "leap on board", though he did that often enough in his life. Yet the "two hobos" gave me satisfaction: when the journey slips into a mystery tour, and you try but can't write, and need support, and cry out for help, and you're told the train's delayed, that's when you need the support of Federico Garcia Lorca and William Butler Yeats. Both smoked; that's why we were all in the "B" carriage, the only smoking one in the whole train.
And yes, I have preserved the stubs, though I'm not sure which is Lorca's, Yeats' or mine.

Andrew.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:13 am

I liked the poem a lot, Andrew. I felt there was probably a deeper meaning or a meaning that I couldn't get anyway. Leave it to Tom - nice job (the both you). I like the 'hobos', Lorca and Yeats, I think you're right about not having Guthrie jump the train.

Linda.

LaurieAK · Post by **LaurieAK** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:00 pm

My initial reaction after reading the poem, the translation and response; well i thought it too inaccessible from the start. Small bits of tangible clues lie waiting for all, but too many geo-centric meanings dilute it too much (for me).

For some reason, thinking this, and re-reading Andrew's words: "...when the journey slips into a mystery tour,..."

I was taken back to a moment in time over 30 years ago. It lasted only seconds but i can still hear the 'crazy man's' voice, see his stride, crossing the near empty street in Seattle as i stood waiting for a bus with my grandfather. Out of nowhere this disheveled man is crossing the street and with a booming voice that echoed, shouted, 'east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.' For reasons i do not understand, that moment has always stayed with me, like a time stop picture.

I looked up the quote just now and it is from Kipling:

Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgement Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho' they come from the ends of the earth!
----Rudyard Kipling

No. I don't know what the hell it all means!

tis a mystery...

L

Andrew McGeever · Post by **Andrew McGeever** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:00 am

Dear LaurieAK,
I too, was conscious about the "geo-centric meanings", yet didn't intend the poem to be a puzzle.
When you hear the clickety-click of the wheels of the train, and everybody's smoking in the "B" carriage, and you slip into that nodding-off, semi-sleep state, it's time for a poem ..... or dream.
"When the journey slips into a mystery tour....".....Laurie, I thank you for your reply, and the fascinating moment you recalled with your grandfather 30 years ago!
Andrew.
P.S. "Poetry's for Poofs" wasn't a dream: it's a fact that Rangers lost; I retain the back page of that "Sun", and as for the stubs...I've separated them into his (Yeats), and his (Lorca), and mine (Andrew).

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:41 pm

Those phrases [minus the words "and never the twain shall meet" ~ but surely included in the concept

] are also part of an old song, popular when I was a child. I loooooved singing along with this song, and if it were to play now, I'd love it all over again

! The song is "Button and Bows" ~ and the lyrics appear:

1948 - "Buttons and Bows" from The Paleface
Music and lyric by Ray Evans and Jay Livingston

"East is east and west is west
And the wrong one I have chose
Let's go where I'll keep on wearin'
Those frills and flowers and buttons and bows
Rings and things and buttons and bows

Don't bury me in this prairie
Take me where the cement grows
Let's move down to some big town
Where they love a gal by the cut o' her clothes
And I'll stand out
In buttons and bows

I'll love you in buckskin
Or skirts that I've homespun
But I'll love ya' longer, stronger where
Yer friends don't tote a gun

My bones denounce the buckboard bounce
And the cactus hurts my toes
Let's vamoose where gals keep usin'
Those silks and satins and linen that shows
And I'm all yours in buttons and bows

Gimme eastern trimmin' where women are women
In high silk hose and peek-a-boo clothes
And French perfume that rocks the room
And I'm all yours in buttons and bows."

~ Elizabeth

LaurieAK · Post by **LaurieAK** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:38 pm

Lizzy-

I can sort of hear the refrain's tune in my head of this song.

Anyways, those are some really great lyrics. It is so specific, makes me wonder if it is a show tune or for a movie(?)

I think in this song, they take the 'east/west' line and turn it into a U.S.A. cowboy vs. eastern city livin' scenario.

I think Kipling's statement is much different. I will have to dig deeper and find the context of his statement...and i should quit being so lazy and research what Andrew said about my poem and Cole Porter...so much to do....so little time

L

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:14 pm

Oh, yes, definitely had a different slant and thrust from what you quoted. Didn't mean to suggest they were the same; just reminded me of a song from my childhood, which I then wanted to share. It definitely related to a woman moving out West, and then wondering what the Sam hell she'd done

.

Dinah Shore sang it, and it shows her cover with the lead in being,
"A western ranch is just a branch of Nowhere Junction to me.
Give me the city where living's pretty and the gals wearing finery."

I have no idea whether it was a movie or stage play.

LaurieAK · Post by **LaurieAK** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:52 pm

okay-- i travelled long and far over a crusty keyboard for this...

Button and Bows won an academy award in 1948.

It is from the movie: Paleface

Starring none other than Bob Hope and Jane Russel (as Calamity Jane).

mystery solved

L

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:56 am

It's a nice song (I think I saw the movie) and boy, I sure do agree (as a woman who moved from the city to the rural). "A Western ranch is just branch of Nowhere Junction to me. Give me a city where the living's pretty and the gal's where finery". Oh yeah, I agree.

It's the opposite of but similiar in feel to "Don't Fence Me In".

Linda.

LaurieAK · Post by **LaurieAK** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:35 am

hi Linda-

"A Western ranch is just branch of Nowhere Junction to me. Give me a city where the living's pretty and the gal's where finery".

What's this from?
Or did you write your own lyrics?

L

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:42 am

I can't type, I lost my glasses and couldn't find them 'cause of the cataracts, plus I have a secret desire to be a lyricist. I steal from others as practise. I was in a rush, I had a creative urge and surge of independent energy which I just put down in any old order and just went on and on and on...

Thank you for noticing.

Linda.

That's it! I was wearing SUN GLASSES! Not my reading/seeing glasses!