Europe & America - Recognizing the radical islam threat

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:41 am

the voices of reason tend to get no exposure in the politically-correct press everywhere, but even less so in Europe. So it is good to see a major media executive sound the wake-up call. Can we have a reasoned, unemotional exchange without resorting to name-calling or just expressing opinions; emphasis on reasoning.... is this man wrong? is there no threat? is Europe "fiddling while western culture is burning itself out"?
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http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/20 ... _name.html

Europe – Thy Name is Cowardice
Matthias Döpfner, Chief Executive of German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in the daily WELT against the cowardice of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat. Hartmut Lau translated the article for us.

Europe – Thy Name is Cowardice

Commentary by Mathias Döpfner

A few days ago Henryk M. Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe – your family name is appeasement." It’s a phrase you can’t get out of your head because it’s so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to agreements. Appeasement stabilized communism in the Soviet Union and East Germany in that part of Europe where inhuman, suppressive governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo and we Europeans debated and debated until the Americans came in and did our work for us. Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians. Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore 300,000 victims of Saddam’s torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, to issue bad grades to George Bush. A particularly grotesque form of appeasement is reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere by suggesting that we should really have a Muslim holiday in Germany.

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians and directed against our free, open Western societies.
It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than the great military conflicts of the last century—a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by tolerance and accommodation but only spurred on by such gestures, which will be mistaken for signs of weakness.

Two recent American presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. Reagan ended the Cold War and Bush, supported only by the social democrat Blair acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic fight against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner instead of defending liberal society’s values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China. On the contrary—we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to the intolerant, as world champions in tolerance, which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we’re so moral? I fear it’s more because we’re so materialistic.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy—because everything is at stake.

While the alleged capitalistic robber barons in American know their priorities, we timidly defend our social welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive. We’d rather discuss the 35-hour workweek or our dental health plan coverage. Or listen to TV pastors preach about "reaching out to murderers." These days, Europe reminds me of an elderly aunt who hides her last pieces of jewelry with shaking hands when she notices a robber has broken into a neighbor’s house. Europe, thy name is cowardice. (emphasis added)

Matthias Döpfner has done it before - criticizing the spineless reaction of the European political elites to the dangers of Islamic terror.

He is by far the most powerful voice in the German media against the reappearance of the rotten European appeasement policies of the 20th century.

November 22, 2004 at 12:59 AM in Welt | Permalink

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:51 am

Marcel, I understand your overstated patriotism. But you don't have to prove again and again that you're American.

You are. No matter where you're born. You are American. Home, sweet home.

So stand up, my friend. Defend your country against those who tear it down. Like good old Merle Haggard sang: "When you're tearing down my country, Lord, you're getting on the fightin' side of me."

But choose your enemies well.

A choice to offer:

1. Hang the wrong person, and consider it done.

2. Let the accused go free, live with a crime unpunished, but keep on looking for the one who did the deed.

Tom

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:26 am

discuss the subject or be still!

please!

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:57 am

Marcel,

I'd never tell you to either shut up or discuss according to my rules.

What is the subject?

The real subject is your (and your thinkalikes') intolerance.

Kick at me. Do! Kick!

But try to disentagle yourself first from your prejudices in favour of whatever Republican is leading now.

Tom

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:14 am

ok, I just disentangled me from all my prejudices............. I feel much better, thanks.
Now, what do you have to say on the subject at hand---radical islam: threat or not? and what do we/you doabout it?

I'll start. Our (apolitical) opinion is that we are not so much fighting "terrorism" as a "radical form of Islam", which many now are starting to call "islamo-fascism"..... although it still sounds PC to me, it is a more appropriate description. What is the US doing: trying to stop the flow of their money to/from the US, funding "hate schools"; persuade Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to outlaw outright incitement to violence; deny non-immigrant visas to known radicals (Tariq Raman of Geneva University was denied a visa to teach in the US; several southern Florida university professors are in jail for funding terrorist activities and preaching violence against America.....)
Germany is starting to deport radical clerics....
France is trying to draw the line in the sand about scarves...

Is all that enough? is it making a difference? what other measures need to be taken? are individual governments rising to the occasion or hiding their hands in the sand?

Are universities in Europe and America infiltrated by socalled Islamic Scholars?

Now your turn, Tom.

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:30 am

Dear Marcel,

entangled from precudice, as we are now, I can only say one thing:

Please stop the Islam, and his older brother Cristianity, and their common father Judaism. They are playing the same tune; in their fundamentalisms they're accessories after the fact to all terrorism we have reason to be afraid of.

They all could play a much better tune, but they don't.

Patton didn't chase the Nazis out of Luxembourg in order to establish an American fascism. Od did he?

Tom

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:56 am

"hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil".... your motto?

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:22 am

rather seems to be yours... or are you lacking a mirror?

There is Evil in this world, and Bush and Usama are the flip sides of it: narrowminded belief. (There are ways to tender a conflict, and as long as the producers of armaments profit from them, they will make them used...)

Tom

PS:
From the dates I conclude that your Patton experience took place in Luxembourg. Will you detail into which village it was?

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:04 pm

if you can't get on the subject go start your own topic and maybe someone will debate you....

the subject here is "radical islam"

bee · Post by **bee** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:48 pm

There is Evil in this world, and Bush and Usama are the flip sides of it: narrowminded belief.

Tom- if you really think that- would you please describe what is Usama's ideology and deeds?
How would you compare that to the concepts and actions of our President?
Needless to say- it is incomprehensible for anybody with any sense of reality, unless the person is tottaly brainwashed muslim fanatic, to talk about flip sides in reference to President Bush and a murderer Osama bin Laden.
Tom, if one wishes, every sentence of your posts could be analized, the narrovness and stupidity of which, even maskeraded as a smart and "humanitarian" talk, that all could get so naked. But , as Marcel allready said- it's not worth the effort.
I was reading your posts and was amazed by the arrogance of your vanity and stupidity, - which is a deadly combination.

Please stop the Islam, and his older brother Cristianity, and their common father Judaism. They are playing the same tune; in their fundamentalisms they're accessories after the fact to all terrorism we have reason to be afraid of.

In this "pearl" Tom, one can tell, without looking much deeper, how much knowledge you're having in the history, or just in the history of freedom to be a dumkopf, as you most certainly demonstrated in the above quoted
sentence of yours. Amazing. I am reading and rereading, "makes you wanna cry"

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:52 pm

Hey Bee, Europeans generally are not interested in discussing this issue, as this article in today's Chicago Tribune seems to make clear: ISLAM SHAPING A NEW EUROPE:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... i-news-hed

European past political-correctness and magnanimity toward their previously exploited colonial subjects is now biting them in the behind. I think it is quite ironic that the center of the radical islamic crowd in France is where they permitted Khomeini 30+ years ago to organize his radical revolution, in St. Denis, the final resting place for France's glorious kings and queens...
European diplomacy based on "accomodation and compromise" with these radicals will not work, since the radicals believe in all or nothing.... is the die cast in Europe, or at least in France?
America still has a chance of stopping radical islam (islamo-fashists), although they will be hiding among the latino-immigrants invading our land; reports of large concentrations of muslims in Mexico and South America are indeed alarming.

23 Million or 4.5% of european population; 10% in France

they are taught that Islam knows no boundaries and in fact they want to erase any and all "national borders", eliminate any remnants of "civilizationism" which has motivated mankind until now...

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:42 am

Have a good holiday Marcel. I have to say you looked better as a Chippendale Dancer, though.

mdidier · Post by **mdidier** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:27 am

thanks linda.... I reciprocate the good wishes..... I did not want to brag anymore, so I dissolved my Chippendale personality... the subject I am trying to discuss makes me feel "frazzled".... therefore the snapdragon... or someone else said, 'lost my snap, ergo draggin' my ass...

happy holidays

marcel

bee · Post by **bee** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:20 am

Marcel, one of the latest and quite worrisome news is that of a Turkey's expressed desire to be a part of EU. How that is going to play out, considering more then huge muslim population of Turkey? It is so confusing to think about it...What impact would it have on EU, if Turkey becomes a member of EU?

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:04 am

Interesting topic