Leonard's Spiritual Journey and Yours?

[John Etherington]

Leonard's spiritual journey has embraced a number of different religions and belief systems. He was raised mainly in the Jewish faith, but also part-Christian by his Irish Catholic nanny. In the Sixties he looked into systems such as I-Ching, astrology, and scientology. He then discovered Zen Buddhism, which he has pursued as a discipline, while maintaining that he is predominantly a Jew. He also studied in India with Ramesh Balsekar. Kabbalism (esoteric Judaism) features in some of his songs, yet Christian imagery pervades much of his work, including "Old Ideas". When Jarvis Cocker tried to lead him into a discussion of these things, he thought it was best not to go there. Yet it has become accepted that spirituality is an integral part of his work.

So what do Forum members make of all this? Do you feel a resonance with most of what Leonard says, and if not, where not? (I thought it was interesting that one young lady who used to post here was converted to Catholicism by listening to Leonard). How do you define your own spiritual beliefs...do you adhere to a specific religion or some kind of crossover? Do you just think of yourself as vaguely spiritual? Or are there any Leonard "devotees" who consider themselves atheist or agnostic, and relate mainly to other aspects of his work such as sensuality or suffering?

To set the ball rolling, I'll briefly define my own spiritual journey. I was brought up by two born-again baptists, and although I thought their belief system was largely a recipe for misery, I never rejected the essence of the faith! In the late Sixties and Seventies, I became interested in all things mystical and esoteric. I was never drawn to gurus, but found that George Harrison's Hindu beliefs had a certain appeal (I liked the idea of a blue God playing a flute). Thus I began to consider the possibly of reincarnation. I read Hermann Hesse and Jung, threw the I-Ching, became vegetarian and studied astrology (the latter two are ongoing). In the early 80s I came across the Kaballah, and found that the "Tree of Life" made a lot of sense. A friend identified me as a Neoplatonist in spirit, since Neoplatonism can incorporate esoteric Christianity, Kabbalism and astrology. Another teacher I know defined the goal of Neoplatonism as being that of infusing the material/sensual world with the spirit, which I like. However, I've read the main precepts of Buddhism and agree with most of them (I'll even rescue an insect in the bath!). I can also relate to the more pagan idea of the Divine being perceived through nature. In bleaker moments, I sometimes think that the whole of existence is a miracle, but oblivion might be the ultimate end.

Over to you...This post doesn't necesariliy require any answers...it may be a cue for internal reflection.

[Violet]

Hi John.. as I'm up so early today, I thought I'd take a look around here, and thought this interesting.

I think of Leonard as an artist first, I guess. And yes, we live in the various neighborhoods we grew up with, and matured with, as far as spiritual disciplines and ideas go. But, then the artist is thrown back on him or herself.. and it's often there you--the artist, I mean.. starts to see what aspects of the world he's been exposed to have resonance, and personal, somehow "aesthetic" meaning. If Leonard were simply there "illustrating" a set of known beliefs, there would not be the richness we all perceive in his work. This richness is that of his own psyche, which, yes.. has resided in these various spiritual neighborhoods--neighborhoods which have brought forth either their nurturance, or even terrains of doubt and despair, at times. I mean, just what is this "God" that has us all having to "grapple" so?.. to beg, even.. at times?.. [such might speak to that rocky terrain]

[John Etherington]

Thanks, Violet, That was the sort of answer I was looking for, even though I tried to make this post as open-ended as possible. I think that the great thing about Leonard's work is that it points to the inner core of the various religions and teachings that he's explored, or raises questions about them rather than attempting any specific answers. I guess I was originally drawn to songs such as "Sisters of Mercy", "Suzanne" and "Priests" because religious imagery and sexual imagery were comfortably inhabiting the same songs. There was not the differention of "sacred" and "profane" that I had previously been accustomed to, which seemed to polarise one with the other.

However, In the early days I remember one particularly cynical reviewer criticising Leonard's songs dismissively as some formulated combination of sexuality and Catholic guilt! After that, it would be many years before most people perceived a spiritual quality in his writings. Then, when "Various Positions" and "Book of Mercy" appeared, they were largely ignored. The fact that "Hallelujah" and "Old Ideas" have been so widely embraced, points to a greater collective need for a spiritual dimension, at the present time. It is also interesting that when the French interviewer suggested Leonard made "religion" seem attractive, Leonard preferred to stress the importance of interacting within a community (where spirituality is lived rather than spoken about).

[st theresa1]

Hi John--an interesting thread--having been raised Catholic, I might point at Leonard as one of my influences in leaving that church --His poetry and music spoke to me much more than any sermon. In some weird way Leonard and others gave me permission to question--how could anything that felt so right be wrong? My questioning lead me along numerous paths, but I never could settle on any one. Eventually the human failings of various groups defeated me. (I was young and unforgiving) I even got saved once, but have joked that it didn't take. For the last 40 years I have read all manner of spriritual literature and studied some scholarly treatises as well. My latest focus for the past 10 years has been on a A Course in Miracles. It keeps calling me back with its message that this world is not real. Not entirely believing that, I can see the practical use of such an idea in helping one to transcend their attachment to their life here on earth. I like one of the first teachings from it --that miracles are natural--and when they do not happen something has gone wrong. I also like that the book came ( apparently from someone calling himself Jesus) to the ears of a 57 year old psychologist who was working in a New York university and didn't believe in Jesus (she was Jewish) . She took dictation, using shorthand. Of course seriously religious people see it as the work of the devil, and I must admit, I kind of like that too. Leonard's Ten New Songs corresponded (for me) with my initial study of that work and seemed to remind me of what I was reading there in almost every other line.
Sufism is another side interest for me, come by through my love of poetry and Rumi in particular. Rumi and Leonard stand beside each other for me, although Leonard, of course, seems much more human and real.

[Jonnie Falafel]

I was raised in a protestant (christian) environment but became an atheist. Never interfered with my apreciation of "spiritual" lyric/poetry though. There's even something to be said for Dylans dogmatic christian phase. However, the trouble with talk of spirituality is that it's like knitting fog. Often it seems we're all talking about different things and conversations vacilate all over the place. The trouble with this thread is that it requires such a complex response I think I need to go away and think a bit and then come back to it.

[John Etherington]

Thanks for your stories...

Teresa - I'm familiar with "A Course in Miracles". I used to sell it when I worked in Watkins Bookshop. I had a friend who joined the course, and I also attended a talk on it. It seems a very impressive book, but appears to be almost too positive by leaving out the suffering aspects of Christianity (?). Maybe the masochist in me wants that!

Jonnie - You're dead right...This thread may well evaporate into a Neptunian fog (but I'm not guilty)! By the way, I'm one of the few who liked Dylan's "Saved" album (even more so than "Slow Train Coming", which I thought contained a bit too much fire and brimstone"). As Leonard said, Dylan wrote some of the most beautiful gospel songs that were ever written. I detect certain similarities between Leonard's "Come Healing" and "Dylan's "Every Grain of Sand".

[LisaLCFan]

I was raised in a protestant (christian) environment but became an atheist. Never interfered with my apreciation of "spiritual" lyric/poetry though... However, the trouble with talk of spirituality is that it's like knitting fog. Often it seems we're all talking about different things and conversations vacilate all over the place. The trouble with this thread is that it requires such a complex response I think I need to go away and think a bit and then come back to it.

This describes me very well. I almost responded to this thread the other day, but it occurred to me that I am not even certain how I would define "spiritual," or if it is a realm that I have any grasp of at all, or if I even believe that it is realm that exists. What I am certain of is that I do not believe in a god of any sort, but that is a rather different matter, since there can be notions of spirituality without a deity. Regarding the latter, however, Leonard's apparent belief in a god is not something that I can relate to, but it has not interfered with my appreciation of his work. I think that Leonard's work functions on so many purely human elements that, regardless of individual beliefs about spirituality, god, etc, just being human allows us to experience his work in a deep and meaningful way.

Lisa

[Gullivor]

Wow...good topic!

I was thinking about what to say when I thought "just say it the way it was and is" for me.

So for me at an early age I always felt like I was missing something. Deep down inside I felt that something was wrong. Seemed like a hole in me full of pain.

I would listen to leonard and related to the "suffering" and "hurting". I was also drawn with his songs of a spiritual nature. A spiritual solution to the "suffering" and "hurting".

My prior fun of social drinking and partying turned into a painkiller habit by the age of 29. By age 33 I had given up on myself. Fortunately I found my way into a meeting of an Anonymous 12-step group. They told me about how this "God", or whatever it is, has not only helped them quit the drink and drug but they have wonderful lives filled with laughter, friends, happiness and peace of mind. They said I can have it too if I was willing to do what they did. So I did and found that there is spiritual solutions to life's problems.

I like Leonard's approach of a spiritual longing to life's problems. I could relate before I did believe and I can relate now that I do believe.

[Jonnie Falafel]

"I know that I'm forgiven,
I just don't know how I know,
I don't trust my inner feelings,
Inner feelings come and go"

Epistemological conjectures in a very witty song.

"I just want him to be certain
That he doesn't have a burden,
That he doesn't need a vision"

[John Etherington]

Jonnie - I hear what you're saying. Though even now in 2012, I'm sure that Leonard is still a Priest of God.

[DBCohen]

John,

What puzzles me is why you never participated, or hardly ever (as far as I remember, and please excuse me if I’m mistaken) in our long Book of Mercy discussion? Reading your posts here made me think that you would have made great contributions.

All good things,

Doron

[John Etherington]

Doron,

I think there's a few reasons for this. Although, Leonard has consistently been the most important artist to me (since 1968), there are periods when I've given his work a substantial rest. During these periods, I've often immersed myself in other artists work. 2006 would have been a low-profile period for me, as it was two years since "Dear Heather" (my least-played Leonard album) and his return with Anjani's "Blue Alert" the following year. When I noticed the "Book of Mercy" discussion, it seemed a bit too late to participate properly.

Another key reason is that although I own and have read through all of Leonard's poetry books, I am not otherwise widely read in poetry and don't consider myself any sort of expert on the subject. I have to say that I found "Book of Mercy" the most accessible and moving of Leonard's poetic works. However, I read it at the end of an important relationship, and found it such a valuable resource that I preferred not to analyse it too intensely. I thought it better just to leave it there for such times when I might really need it.

All good wishes, John E

P.S. I may well still read through the whole of your discussion, if a relevant moment emerges.

[DBCohen]

John,

Thanks for your clarification. I can well appreciate your first reason; as for not being an expert on poetry, that’s true for most of us, so that shouldn’t have stopped you. Anyhow, I hope more discussions will take place in the future (since the time the tour had started, and now with the album, and perhaps more concerts coming up, the atmosphere does not seem compatible with thorough, long-term discussions; we’d better wait for the dust to settle).

[Tchocolatl]

11 months later...

We will never know for sure what Leonard Cohen learned in regard to religions, philosophies, and spiritual matters, and what he is still learning, and what he will learned. It is just possible to know that he was bathing in all those matters in the womb of his mother, that he was interested to explore them as an adult; and as an artist, he creates stuff made of his own stuff.

I find him so huge in this regard. I consider him a real spiritual master from my own position in life because I am sure that I will never reach half of his knowledge in my lifetime. I just can feel the vast knowledge that he has, but I can not know anything about it.

It so great and high, that it can be seen by everybody from any point of views.

I do believe that everyone finds what it is needed, even though it can be diametrically opposed, sometimes.

Reality is as simple, and as complex as this, i guess. The important thing is : this has a sacred quality to kept alive, this is the flow of lives that is Life. That is what is important.

So, my background is not as important, what is important is "my path", my life. Where I come from is not important, neither where I am going. What is important is what I am living now, because this is the only eternity that is available, the present time.

The artistic work of Leonard Cohen is the most enduring companion on this Earth that I have found on that path.

Though many other influences of all sorts were encountered, and may be dear.

Right now my path leads me to look closely at Matthieu Ricard, and his blended of buddhist practice and science, and the concept of neuroplasticity.

This monk has a blog, here :
http://www.matthieuricard.org/en/index.php/blog//

Also, I am interested in the string theory :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

Which seems a most mystical object for me at the moment. As long as ideas can be seen as objects...

[John Etherington]

Tchocolati - Thanks for reviving this...I'd totally fortgotten that I started the thread in the first place (more brain cells must be dying out as I grow older!).Thanks for your contributions... The Matthieu Ricard blog seems to be right on track, but the string theory stuff looks as if it would take some getting one's head around!

I saw an interesting debate between Richard Dawkins and the Chief Rabbi on BBC TV over Christmas, and the Chief Rabbi stood his ground pretty well. To me, it seems logical that there is intelligent mind behind material and physical manifestation, even if a big bang was part of the process. You don't just get a ball floating around in space with life on it coming out of nowhere, and just have happen to have a Sun and Moon that look exactly the same size even though they are thousands of miles apart (it's rather like Leonard Cohen records manifesting out of nothingness, when there is no Leonard Cohen!). Cosmic order and divine proportion are of great interest to me.

I also believe we are able to travel through time and space or other dimensions during sleep. Although we may not remember much of it, I think that's when a lot of soul work takes place. Rudolf Steiner suggested that after "death", we spend a third of our previous life-span reliving our dreams so that we can see how they all fit into place.

I have been interested in near-death experiences since I read Raymond Moody's "Life After Life" book in the Seventies. The current resurgence of interest in this topic seems timely. I see that the book "Proof of Heaven" is the best-selling book in America. It is written by a respected neuro-surgeon, and doesn't have a specifically religious agenda. This short video about it is well-worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW_dxq-KaME All good things, John E