"There But For Fortune"

[Steven]

Hi,

Here's Phil Ochs singing "There But For Fortune":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tDxVRw6yec.

Here's Joan Baez covering "There But For Fortune":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4BYOJ1tc-k.

There but for fortune songs like this exist.

[Diane]

Hi Steven. Great song I agree - enjoyed both.
Going Down to Mississippi, was on a compilation someone once gave me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe2GHwJdd4
not as deep as other Ochs and it ain't no Pancho and Lefty, but I did love the tune:-)

[Steven]

Hi Diane,

You love that "Mississippi" Ochs tune. Okay, compare that one to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFbJU0V ... re=related. As a kid, I was taken to
a Phil Ochs concert. It was the only concert of his I attended. -- I remember him singing
"Here's To The State Of Mississippi." It's one of my favorite Phil Ochs songs.

[lightning]

Phil was angry at Joan for changing his lyrics. He wrote "And I''ll show you a young man with so many reasons why. And there but for fortune go you or I." Joan left out the second "and" which altered the meaning.

[Kush]

He wrote "And I''ll show you a young man with so many reasons why. And there but for fortune go you or I." Joan left out the second "and" which altered the meaning.

C'est la vie.

[Steven]

Hi lightning,

Phil had it better, i.m.o., with the "and" in place (where it had been omitted in the Joan Baez cover).
I very much enjoy both of their recordings of the song.

[lightning]

I think he also was jealous that she had the hit with the song and he didn't. I can't blame him for this.

[Steven]

Hi lightning,

On the live concert recording of the song that is included on the CD "Phil Ochs In Concert," Phil introduces the
song with words that include "a song written for me by Miss Joan Baez." They were intended as humorous
(and led people, me included, to think it was her song). He could have been jealous and maybe the humor
was an attempt for him to deal with that. Don't know. Were he to have been jealous, wouldn't blame him for that
emotion. They each imparted much to the song. I'm biased towards favoring Phil's recording, but without the bias might consider the Baez cover as the better of the two.

[lightning]

In a personal conversation I had with him he was quite angry that she changed the lyrics. I don't know about jealousy, that was my interpretation,maybe it was more that he was hurt that the hit was hers and the song ,altered, came to be associated with her.

[Kush]

All this is very Clintonesque.

p.s. its a truly great song. And humbling. Reminds me of how easily circumstances can be different but for fortune. Its almost disturbing.
I have that album too Phil Ochs in Concert. I have no opinion on the the matter of the missing "and".

[Steven]

Hi lightning,

He was very journalistically inclined, certainly more than most songwriters. And with a journalist-like penchant for
word precision, can understand why a word alteration could have upset him. -- He knew what he meant to convey and how he wanted to convey it. The word change, of course, didn't make or break the song for Joan Baez. Phil could have
felt all of these emotions: jealousy, hurt, anger and concurrent conflicting feelings.

[Steven]

Hi Kush,

"Clintonesque":

Agreed on the song being great and humbling. As for almost disturbing, yes. "There but for the grace of God go I." -- Skill, hard work, self-determination and all of that don't mean squat if circumstances are overriding.

[lightning]

I've often heard songwriters feel violated when cover artists change their lyrics. I wonder how Leonard felt about what Joan Baez did to "Suzanne.""--""she's touched you and she's moved you and she's kind." I never liked that re-write, but Leonard may be too polite to complain.

[Kush]

By this logic ol' Irving Berlin must be turning in his grave...."shakedown in the shower"?? Really??? But he is too dead to complain about it.

[lightning]

I heard somewhere that Irving Berlin did not write all of his songs, his "workshop" wrote many of them but they put his name on them so they would sell, so maybe others will be turning over in their graves. I don't know what "shakedown in the shower" is a rewrite of.