If I were a soliloquy

[Violet]

... oh, now I get it:

.. it's to post, or not to post?.. that is the question.. (took a while to realize it)..

[Violet]

.. well, thanks to the miracle of youtube, a while back I did a sort of To Be or Not To Be survey, with the following results. These are not posted in the order of my preference, actually, as my preference seems to shift according to my mood, although I actually thought for a long while that I preferred Kenneth Branagh's more intellectual seeming Hamlet over all the other filmed Hamlets. But somehow Mel Gibson's interpretation has grown on me, as there's something in his emotionalism that buoys the famous speech, I think.. (oh, somehow Schwartznegger got in here as well. I just love it when he says: NOT to be) Oh, and then there's Sir Laurence's treacherous cliff approach. He, no doubt, is the most "dreamy" Hamlet.. the most forlorn, maybe.. [I'd note that both he and Branagh are directing themselves in these films, which ain't that easy, I might point out. Although Mel, himself, rose to the challenge quite amazingly when he came out with Braveheart] [he was also producing his own Hamlet] As to Branagh's interpretation, I've always liked the self consciousness evoked in his use of the mirror, and the sharp precision of the bodkin marking his mirrored self, with his whisper suggesting Hamlet's thoughts, as opposed to his "talking to himself".. (maybe)..

.. oh, I thought I'd add, in terms of certain word disputes.. my copy of Hamlet has "pitch" instead of "pith".. and "calumny" instead of "calamity".. (just thought I'd make a note) Oh, and of course, in Arnold's case, some poetic [action] license seems to have been issued, and so these nuances are not really to the point, it would seem. (just saying)


Mel Gibson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdp6dpiK8Ko
FULL SCREEN..

Arnold Schwartznegger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCVc5TaPpe8
FULL SCREEN..

Branagh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JD6gOrARk4
FULL SCREEN..

Laurence Olivier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ks-NbCHUns
FULL SCREEN..

.. oh, I'd add here, Richard Burton's more anxious, explosive Hamlet, in a stage production directed by Sir John Gielgud, whose own Hamlet [on stage] was reputedly remarkable, though I've not yet found it documented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsrOXAY1 ... ature=fvwp
FULL SCREEN

.. only thing here, though, is that I'm finding Ophelia lacking, as this clip includes the subsequent "Get thee to a nunnery" scene. [involving Ophelia] I’m seeing only “poor Hamlet.. poor poor Hamlet”.. and nothing of his cunning.. of his.. well, murdering of her. She is (quite simplistically in my opinion) “in the wrong” here. With, again, no sign of Hamlet’s role in this.

Below is Kate Winslet's Ophelia in the same scene. And, well, first.. I don't know if I take issue with the Bard himself in this scene, or with its interpretations. How can Hamlet [genius that he is] get this set-up so very wrong? I mean, yes, Ophelia is obviously being used as as pawn by her ambitious father (so aligned with the treasonous king).. but it is quite obvious she is "with" Hamlet. In that, her sentiments transcend circumstance. And so, surely Hamlet can see this.. though.. maybe he chooses not to?? I would be happier with this scene if Hamlet were played more cruelly, as per the text itself, as I see nothing of this distraughtness and emotionalism (that Branagh is here portraying) in the Bard's accounting.

Just as Hamlet did earlier in Ophelia's bedroom chamber.. [he feigns madness, and does an antic form of.. well, toying with her].. his actions are without the least regard for how Ophelia might be taking them. How has it come to this??.. that he would undo what seems already to have been done between them--not just sexually speaking, but romantically as well? Is their love of so little value? Can Hamlet truly love?.. or is he wed to "mind," and mind alone?.. in which case, no woman.. not even the good and true and fair Ophelia, could win him. But if this is true.. then SHOW this to me. This cruelty of mind, as it were.. and the fact that Hamlet needs not.. love.

.. well, at least here, with Kate Winslet's emotionally palpable performance, we can see better Ophelia's side of things.. and where this fateful meeting will eventually lead her.

[in updating the link, I see this speech of Ophelia's is no longer available on youtube. This is quite touching, though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74YTzl7vFEs
FULL SCREEN..


.. note how.. even after Hamlet's cruel treatment of her, Ophelia seems unable to hold him in any way accountable. Instead, he is, to her: "the noble mind here o'erthrown".. for to Ophelia, it is a madness that must have done this to her.. and not her beloved Hamlet.


Ophelia: O! what a noble mind is here o'er-
thrown:
The courtier's, soldier's, scholar's, eye -- tongue --
sword;
Th' expectancy and rose of the fair state,
The glass of fashion and the mold of form,
Th' observed of all observers, quite, quite down!
And I, of ladies most deject and wretched,
That suck'd the honey of his musicked vows,
Now sees that noble and most sovereign reason,
Like sweet bells jangled, out of tune and harsh;
That unmatch'd form and feature of blown
youth
Blasted with ecstasy. O! woe is me,
T' have seen what I have seen, see what I see.




much later edits: the double ellipsis matter. Oh, and I then updated the youtube links.

[Violet]

I wrote this a while ago.. I'd been meaning to go over it a bit, before posting it.. so.. finally.. here goes:


I’m up late at night, not feeling too well actually.. but.. I thought to just string a few words together for this thread.

.. I’ve been thinking of the idea of virtues, and what I’ve come up with as the most important may not fit neatly into the “seven virtues” usually listed. Anyway, to me, they are fairness and kindness.

.. oh, but first.. here’s a list I’ve just come upon..

Prudence
Justice
Restraint
Courage or Fortitude
Faith
Hope
Love or Charity

.. I do notice that honesty is not mentioned.

.. justice is, which I suppose is close to fairness.

.. of course, utter honesty can be a form of cruelty, if not tempered by kindness, and even fairness.. for how often is the truth fair or kind?

.. what did Hamlet and Ophelia say as regards “honesty"?

HAMLET
Ha, ha! are you honest?
OPHELIA
My lord?
HAMLET
Are you fair?
OPHELIA
What means your lordship?
HAMLET
That if you be honest and fair, your honesty should
admit no discourse to your beauty.
OPHELIA
Could beauty, my lord, have better commerce than
with honesty?
HAMLET
Ay, truly; for the power of beauty will sooner
transform honesty from what it is to a bawd than the
force of honesty can translate beauty into his
likeness: this was sometime a paradox, but now the
time gives it proof.

.. of course, when it comes to Ophelia, it’s hard to say that Hamlet was being honest. In fact, there’s no way to settle the matter I don’t think. She was to be sacrificed, it seems.. though one hardly knows what for. The minute one tries to “explain” his actions, he suddenly becomes “small”.. and that’s not a word that’s attributable to Hamlet. Perhaps it was that he would not be taken by love. He’d leave poor love, broken and bloodied, and he’d concede no need for her. And why? It would again seem too “small” to say that he would be too vulnerable then, as that would be to describe a mortal. Could it be that with Hamlet we are describing a kind of god?.. a god of infinite present.. mind.. movement.. yes, movement, paradoxically, as he’s also so loath to “act”.. unless as a kind of theatre.. or towards the end of the play, when he can’t stop acting.. killing?

.. I guess Hamlet is not much help to me here. He’s been thought to be seductive for the very reason that he doesn’t need love. He wields truth like a sword, or an antic dunce.. or an irascible seer, contemptuous of what he sees.

I didn’t plan on speaking of Hamlet, actually. I tend to say over all, he’s needing to be Hamlet, and so there’s not much room, perhaps, for the mortals in the room.. (except maybe for Horatio)

But what of you or I?.. the mortals in the room, I mean?

.. I just thought of something Marlon Brando says at the end of Apoclaypse Now.. something about “freedom from the opinion of others.”

.. I know what he means, although I don’t know if I want such freedom.. such loneliness, even.


.. actually, my lovely little cat just came to mind. How it is he sits in the kitchen and squints his eyes at me.. over and over.. as if he wants to talk. I mean, it seems he’s that close to being human almost.

.. it seems he was traumatized as a kitten out on the street, when first he wandered in.. flee bitten, and frightened.

.. that was when he'd hide all day long, and I barely ever saw him. But then I decided to try something. In the evenings I’d get hold of him and sit on the couch, watching a movie as I stroked him for two whole hours sometimes, even though he wanted to leave my lap to again go and hide. Only, I wouldn’t let him. And eventually, after days, if not a few weeks of this.. he started to come out during the daytime. A moment here.. a moment there.. spying on me almost.. wondering if I indeed was someone safe.

And now he is so very comfortable with me. He lets me hold him so that he’s doing a back bend over my two lower arms. He’s stretching and arching (and very close to falling if I’m not careful).. as I gently sway with him back an forth like this. Oh, and I kiss him -- smooch him up -- and pet him, wetting my fingers and cleaning the corner of his eyes. He doesn’t always want my attentions, and yet he accepts them somehow, rather as part of how things are, it seems. There is his world.. his wild cat world of killing birds and chipmunks--and chasing deer, even.. and then there is his mother (who I somehow have become), and he’s not questioning of that Not at all.

I don’t kow why I told the story of my cat. Maybe it’s in feeling the world is in need of our kindness.

.. and if I am kind.. if I have found out about kindness.. isn’t it that I have a need for it myself?

.. and when I see cruelty.. honesty without kindness.. intelligence and humor without generosity.. I guess I feel the loss in that. It seems there is a choice we make -- as concerns our souls, even.. with one way heading toward a kind of abject nothingness.. a darkness.. and a nil.. while the other.. could it be an incalculable joy?.. even if our souls are not yet privy to it?.. even if we’ve to come back to this bleak earth, and suffer more first? Still, there seems a choice.. to act with kindness.

v i o l e t


.. still browsing through here today.. I wasn't sure of the transition to my cat.. I had the word "still".. and thought "hmm" might work better.. guess I'll see what I think next time.. other than that, it's as it was.

much later edits: I have to say that in reading this again this post has moved me. [oh, I'm still adjusting the double ellipsis stuff]

[Violet]

[poem removed]

[Violet]

Oh, sweet

I can imagine that if one so disposed
to holding himself back

well, how might such of his feelings be, if he were to

(to finally hold me)


oh, sweet.. that you are everything to me.
oh, sweet.. that you are darling, darling to me.
oh, sweet.. that you are.. my darling.. my darling sweet.


That we might lie upon such green green grasses, from where we’d gaze up at a drifting cloud, and
maybe just our fingers would be touching, though

in our faces

the whole sky would be contained (with souls and
fingers

so entwined)

.. and you’d laugh, and make me laugh (so sharply cruel,

though
just as kind)


oh, sweet, be not cruel to me.
oh, sweet, be but kind.. be but kind to me.
oh, sweet, give your love to me.
oh, sweet.. oh, sweet.. oh, sweet.


v i o l e t


much later edits: I'm having another look at these poems/posts.

[Cate]

this is lovely Violet - the repetition lulls me into a sweet sleepy like state.

[Geoffrey]

this is lovely Violet - the repetition lulls me into a sweet sleepy like state.

subtle, cate - very subtle
ha ha ha ha!!!!!

[Cate]

pass me that spoon you're stirring with - I'm going to beat you with it!!!

Violet will know what I meant... I found it rhythmic and calming and I liked it's wistful quality ... sad isn't such a bad thing there can be a sweetness in it, there can be a sweetness in pain (as long as it's not crushing).
The three S's of sweet sleepy like state were intentional as Violet likes alliteration.

[mat james]

sad isn't such a bad thing there can be a sweetness in it, there can be a sweetness in pain

Very true Cate. They call it "melancholy".

[Geoffrey]

Cate wrote:
>pass me that spoon you're stirring with - I'm going to beat you with it!!!


some of us can't help social inadequacy; leonard blames it on the parents, cate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXaRT8CXmGE

"i know you had to lie to me, i know you had to cheat. you learned it on your father's knee and at your mother's feet!"

[tinderella]

Reminds me of

This Be The verse by Philip Larkin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qahT62n8tcA

[imaginary friend]

Hi there Tinders,

Great Philip Larkin clip!

Here's one who never escaped the tyranny, though she tried and tried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hHjctqS ... re=related

Hope all is well with you.

(and V. hope you don't mind that this is no longer a solioquy...)

[Geoffrey]

these are great, thanks!! as it would have been john lennon's 70th birthday today, let's finish up with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmhRm_92L_8

[mat james]

.. Speak to me now of gentle flowers.. speak to me now.. of lovers’ sighs.. speak to me now.. I’ll list for hours..

I love the way you use "list" (lean/listen), in this line of your "If I were a soliloquy", Violet. What a top image!
I also took you up on those "To be or not to be" links. It makes me want to memorise it all. I will, in fact; then I can study it while I'm sleeping, driving or daydreaming. I find that when I memorise a piece I can roll it over, knead it here and there and slowly "own" it.

I have enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Mat

[Violet]

.. thank you so much for your comments, Mat.. and thank you to others for your interesting conversation and links. I'd somehow not been able to respond 'til now, though it's not to do with anything being said. And yes, Cate, I knew what you were initially saying, and took it to be an appreciation.

.. you know, Mat, that's how I memorized that speech as well -- while driving. My brother was learning acting at the time, and we thought it a good speech to know.. and somehow I got drawn into the process as well. You might check out Harold Bloom's "Invention of the Human," when it comes to Shakespeare. Bloom can be profound, and pondering, and even unyielding, at times, but may well be the best read person on the planet at this moment, and so he has an enormous range of literature informing him. He's also quite gloomy and grumpy seeming at times.. (suits me somehow) Oh, and he's criticized with that book for having no references cited -- that's how "above it all" he is. I think he's ill now, but is a Sterling Professor at Yale.

.. oh, lastly.. Bloom seems almost to be manning a one-man offensive, as he seeks to stave off the pervading tide of Political Correctness, and Post Structuralist blah blah blah that has hijacked academia's take on the Western Canon. I'm for him in this sense as well.

.. his taking arms against a sea of troubles.. and by opposing, ending them?

Good luck with "the speech" (!)

v i o l e t

much later edit: yeah, the double ellipsis stuff, again.