Black bird

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:01 pm

Hi Fljots,

G-d is immortal. It is a spirit that creates me, a spirit that sustains me and a spirit that destroys me. Then I am no more. This is basic Hinduism but I can see parallels in my life.

G-d started the Universe and perhaps one day will finish it. He/She is intangible. Put it this way: I've lost a 17 year-old sister, a 22 year-old brother, a 30 year old brother and my father. All gone. It would have been easy to cast G-d aside (and believe me I did with gusto) and be at one with nothing. But something shone through. This invincible being will cast me aside one day but He/She will go on being here. It is terribly difficult to put into words and it may seem somewhat strange to hear it, but I think faith in a living G-d, one who doesn't judge but who just nudges you along gently into your destiny, is real.

And when my time is up, it's up. For good. Why does there need be an afterlife? I can live comfortably in this dichotomy. It's the mourning for those who've passed that hurts most. I know I will never share with them again.

Boss

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:57 pm

Hi Fljots ~

I'm glad to hear that you do that for the cats/kittens. Every little bit helps, and helping to prevent their experiencing the kind of death you describe is a "Paying It Forward" kindness.

You're right ~ we don't have to agree on everything

~ < * did you put on more milk for another cup of hot chocolate? * >

Hi Boss ~ Now, I'm confused

. You firxt 'confirmed' that the Hindu religion believes in reincarnation, and then you said this [italics mine]:

G-d is immortal. It is a spirit that creates me, a spirit that sustains me and a spirit that destroys me. Then I am no more. This is basic Hinduism.

This doesn't seem to be in sync with reincarnation. Can you clarify, please? Thanks.

~ Lizzy

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:52 am

Dear Lizzy,

I'm sorry for any confusion. Brahma creates, Vishnu preserves and Shiva destroys. For any average Hindu they would expect reincarnation next. Buddhism got this idea from here. However, I don't believe in any form of afterlife. I'm pretty sure I got it straight. Many Hindus pray to different aspects of G-d but in essence they are praying to the one god named Brahman. Hinduism is a complex religion, but one rich in ritual and daily worship. I have only a limited knowledge so if anyone on the forum would like to add more it would be good.

Here is something from the Chandogya Upanishad 5:10

Those who are of good conduct here - the prospect is that they will come to a pleasant birth, either the birth of a priest, or the birth of a warrior, or the birth of a merchant. But those who are of evil conduct here - the prospect is that they will come to an evil birth, either the birth of a dog, or the birth of a swine, or the birth of an outcaste

Boss

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:35 am

Hi Boss ~

Thank you for clarifying that. I know virtually nothing about Hinduism, though with some of its figures[?], it seems there's overlap with Buddhism, which I know only a little more than virtually nothing about. I investigated it a little many years ago, but that was many years ago. Certain concepts, that are part of it, are very appealing to me...but it requires much more than appeal to follow a particular path.

~ Lizzy

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:22 pm

Hinduism and Buddhism can be compared, in one sense, with Judaism and Christianity. Hinduism had many sects and varying ways of praying to the one supreme G-d. The Buddha, who started teaching in Northern India, was influenced by it; thus reincarnation, even without a godhead. As we all know, Christianity branched out of Judaism. These two younger faiths were both inspired by these older, more established religions. And, if you delve into the Qu'ran a little, one can sense a Judeo-Christian element as well. It's interesting to note that all 3 of the 'later' religions revere one man - be it Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha), Yeshu'a ben Yosef (Jesus Christ) or Mohammed ibn-Abdullah Hashim (Mohammed).

So where does that leave us? With religions sprouting from common ground. Oh, to take that step and develop ourselves into one common belief system. I know many scoff at such dreamings but think to yourselves - how did our existing religions come about? Aren't we mature enough yet to embrace each other globally? Mature enough to understand the connection we certainly must feel for one another, our animal relatives, this entire planet? Don't you ever think that hatred may need Love? That so many 'enemies' actually live in you? And so much compassion too?

There is only one hope for all of us. We have to 'get on', else things may get a little out of hand.

It is not too late.

Boss

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:33 pm

Dear Boss ~

So where does that leave us? With religions sprouting from common ground. Oh, to take that step and develop ourselves into one common belief system. I know many scoff at such dreamings but think to yourselves - how did our existing religions come about? Aren't we mature enough yet to embrace each other globally? Mature enough to understand the connection we certainly must feel for one another, our animal relatives, this entire planet? Don't you ever think that hatred may need Love? That so many 'enemies' actually live in you? And so much compassion too?

There is only one hope for all of us. We have to 'get on', else things may get a little out of hand.

It is not too late.

From my personal perspective ~ Excellent flow of thought and conclusion, based upon individual elements, all of which I agree with. I like the nature of your thinking. These are so oft-quoted, yet always true ~

"Love is the only engine of survival." ~ Leonard Cohen
"They may say I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one..." ~ John Lennon

Love,
Lizzy

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:25 pm

Belief in a god, or lack of belief in a god matters not at all, so long as love and caring for our 'fellow travellers' on this planet are at the forefront of the mind and in the depths of the heart.

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:42 pm

What we need Fljots is a path. Some direction, a common goal. We're just playing semantics. You say 'no god' I say 'yes' to G-d; but what we both are aiming at is the same thing. A better place for this tired planet. You don't have to believe in the big 'G' god, you needn't be an atheist as long as you Love, and feel/spread it in abundance. There is something tangible in this, something real. Mystical even. I think I just repeated your post

.

Boss

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:48 pm

Well, I don't know about mystical, Boss!

But I think we have the same or very similar outlooks apart from the god-thing.

I think humanity would be more united if we had no religion.
You think humanity would be more united if we all had the same religion.

Opposite sides of the same coin.

Byron · Post by **Byron** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:32 pm

Make a leaf. A simple enough request/instruction?
Make a leaf.

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:56 pm

We're all here
courageous in our temerity
noble in our failings
compassionate in our savagery
and last but not least
capable of dreaming the impossible dream
and that being
love is all there is

Byron · Post by **Byron** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:11 am

Which came first? The leaf, or love?

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:13 am

My two penneth is: I do not believe that somehow our mind/soul/nature is different from or exists outside of the rest of nature. The Abrahamic religions believe we have a spirit or soul that is supernatural, i.e. outside of nature. I fully accept the idea of god/ G_d as a longing for Oneness, but not as a being outside of our connectedness with the material world. Belief in a god could be a smokescreen, preventing us from seeing our real problems.

This is what I think of as underlying our real problems: It is part of human nature that we need a certain amount of unconditional love from others (our parents, in an ideal world) in order to become properly emotionally/spiritually whole and extend this love to others. This often does not happen, so the world is full of people with unfelt (unconscious) unmet needs. This void of pain is the place where hatred, greed, addiction and depression, for example, all grow. We are all vulnerable (weak) on the inside, and people who have to deny this vulnerability, this essential humanity within, because it has never been validated by anyone else, unconsciously feel driven to protect themselves in these destructive ways. On a society level it manifests as violence, war, and institutionalised greed.

In short, I believe the world needs less God and more Love.

And I think Love came before the leaf, because Love is accepting things exactly the way they are, and things have Always been exactly the way they are, and never any way we may interpret them. So first the universe was pure Love, then came evolution and the leaf. Then came Man and that was when the trouble started

.

Love,

Diane

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:14 am

Byron wrote:Make a leaf. A simple enough request/instruction?
Make a leaf.

No, not a simple instruction. It was 'a blade of grass' when I was religious.

But one day, we undoubtedly will.

If we survive.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:19 am

Diane wrote:My two penneth is: I do not believe that somehow our mind/soul/nature is different from or exists outside of the rest of nature. The Abrahamic religions believe we have a spirit or soul that is supernatural, i.e. outside of nature. I fully accept the idea of god/ G_d as a longing for Oneness, but not as a being outside of our connectedness with the material world. Belief in a god could be a smokescreen, preventing us from seeing our real problems.

This is what I think of as underlying our real problems: It is part of human nature that we need a certain amount of unconditional love from others (our parents, in an ideal world) in order to become properly emotionally/spiritually whole and extend this love to others. This often does not happen, so the world is full of people with unfelt (unconscious) unmet needs. This void of pain is the place where hatred, greed, addiction and depression, for example, all grow. We are all vulnerable (weak) on the inside, and people who have to deny this vulnerability, this essential humanity within, because it has never been validated by anyone else, unconsciously feel driven to protect themselves in these destructive ways. On a society level it manifests as violence, war, and institutionalised greed.

In short, I believe the world needs less God and more Love.

And I think Love came before the leaf, because Love is accepting things exactly the way they are, and things have Always been exactly the way they are, and never any way we may interpret them. So first the universe was pure Love, then came evolution and the leaf. Then came Man and that was when the trouble started .

Love,

Diane

Now this I can get along with.

Except for the last paragraph.

Though the last sentence of the last paragraph is good.

We threw everything out of balance because we wanted the environment to fit us, instead of us fitting the environment.
Which was ok. We went too far, though.