Scale (another edit, maybe)

[Alan Alda]

Tell you what, Mark, how about you take the time and effort (it would be reciprocal in the least) to comment on Manna's poem instead of this shit. It would be a nice start....
Otherwise don't sully her thread with this nonsense.

L

[Manna]

Hey, who said it was my thread? I hereby proclaim that all threads on the Leonard Cohen Forum belong to the forum, and as such, all are equally subject to sullying. I have always done my share to see to this.


Also, I just want to say how much I appreciate the help and insights from everyone who offered.

[mat james]

Manna and mob,
I enjoy the theme/topic of this poem. It took me back to one of my moments/lines, where I "became that space", so to speak. I wrote it 25 years ago and I am still not happy with it. I change it here and there. I go for meter, and I lose the moment. I gain the moment and I lose the meter. I am really only happy with the first 3 lines, but there you go. That's poetry.

"The speckled twilight void
Fell into me
Of course! Of course! I sighed
Among trinity
I am Who am
Intrinsically."


"Among" is one syllable too long, but it is the only word that works, for me.
"I am Who am" is a quote from the Old Testament, so it stays and is o.k.
"Intrinsically" works but I change this line often.
I don't mind changing it over and over again, either. Somehow that moment comes alive again in the thought process. It is almost organic.
So in my opinion, some poems are never finished: That may be a good thing.
In the final analysis, the moment is more significant than the form for this speck of star-dust, me.

Matj

[Jimmy O'Connell]

Matt

Change "among" to "In"...
Then you have the metre: 6 4, 6 4, 4 4
Then two line it...

Title
The speckled twilight void
Fell into me

Of course! Of course! I sighed
In trinity

I am Who am
Intrinsically.

[Mark A. Murphy]

Scale

look inward deeper
than living tissue
cells and molecules

find what is smaller
than space between atoms
subatomic particles

too vague to be
acknowledged as matter
they are magical energy

then squint outward
beyond that streak
of grey-yellow photons

colossal gyrations
in cosmic contours
make mysterious figures

in meticulous freefall

________________________________

look inward deeper
than living tissue
cells and molecules

find what is smaller
than space between atoms
subatomic particles

things so small
they aren't even matter
they're magical energy

then look outward
beyond that streak
of grey-yellow photons
for colossal gyrations
and see how the cosmos

makes mysterious figures
in meticulous freefall



__________________________________________________
Scale: here

look inward, deeper than cavernous meat,
cells and molecules, press your solemn gaze
at something smaller than the space between atoms
and the magical energy of subatomic particles -
things so small we cannot recognize them
even as matter anymore

then look outward, infinitely beyond
that streak of grey-yellow morning photons
out beyond planets in colossal gyration
around suns, see what cosmos there is
look bigger and see its mysterious contours
we cannot recognize what it has made

I propose that it goes like that forever.


edited to take out the crappy line: caught in time and memory
also, kind of wondering if anyone besides me gets "cavernous meat"

Manna, just a few brief thoughts, for what it's worth. First, I like the original posting best, it has a 'non-intrusive' tone that engages and invites the reader to take the journey with you. This is not the voice of Hannes Alfven, but the voice of a poet. Some 'science' poems can be way too technical. I love the use of 'cavernous meat' although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by it. I take it as metaphor, an allusion to the human condition. Cavernous = cave-like or hollow, empty, etc., perhaps I am wrong, I don't mind, I enjoyed the image so much and for me it is one of the best similes in this poem, if not a little ironic, which I also like. I also like the use of 'solemn gaze', again, I get a sense of irony from this. You are serious and yet you are able to smile at the same time, as if inviting the reader to 'play the game' with you. However, I would take 'infinitely' out of the 7th line but keep

then look outward, beyond
that streak of grey-yellow morning photons
out beyond planets in colossal gyration
around suns,

I love the use of 'planets in colossal gyration around suns' although the gyration is relative, neither 'colossal' or otherwise in cosmic terms, unless you are speaking locally. You invite the reader to look bigger and then bigger again, understanding the true nature of infinity. Our meta-galaxy could well be just one of many that goes up to form the bigger terra-galaxy, which in turn could be part of a cluster of terra-galaxies seperated by billions or even trillions of light years. This concept is so exciting, but frightening too. I think you've nailed it. My only real problem with this poem is with the last line. For me, your last proposition might be 'over-egging the cake', to use a well-worn phrase. In the first two stanzas, you show us the wonder that is out there/in there, but in the last line, which I know you aware of, you might be in danger of telling too much.

I agree with you Manna about how a poem looks on the page, it has to sit comfortably. If this were my poem, I would turn it into two sextets and keep much of your original posting. Forcing the poem into tercets doesn't work for me. I feel as though you have imposed a strait-jacket on it. You have the rythms of ordinary speech in the original posting that has its own music. The minimalist approach of the later versions loses most of the music for me. However, the use of 'meticulous freefall' in the last line is great. I am no scientist, but from what I understand, the mathematical 'taming of what were thought to be random or chaotic systems has profound implications for science. The universe may well be in 'meticulous freefall' as you describe, but I doubt whether us humans will ever be able to calculate all the relative ratios involved.

Manna, Rumours of my complexity/difficulty have been exagerrated! I am a simple guy and really out of my depth when it comes to literary criticism. People are quick to tell me that Leonard Cohen's lyrics are depressing, mundane, rubbish even, but I beg to differ, I like it, beyond that I will leave it to the Harold Bloom's of this world to determine whether or not it deserves a place in the literary canon. My opinions count for little here, I hope you will take my comments in good faith.

[Manna]

Hi Mark. Thanks for your ideas. I was starting to think that I preferred the longer lines for this guy. I seldom use form because it feels like I can't talk that way. I need to let it rest a while. I don't feel much like working on it now. This is why I'm not a poet. I don't work hard enough at it. Once I have said something, and it is understood, sometimes that's all I need. Maybe I will come back to it. That happens sometimes too. Sometimes I need to say it "perfectly."

[mat james]

Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for your suggestion.

as you say,"in" works well. By measure, as you have outlined, it is perfect.
"Among", however, implies in the company of several or many where-as "in" implies in the company of one. I like "in" but "among" is more accurate.
But you are right, of course. It works well and thanks again for the help.
The two line layout of the verse (s) is good.

Regards, Matj

[Jimmy O'Connell]

Your welcome, Mat

It is difficult to make the sacrifice... but it depends on what you want to achieve in your poem. It's always the problem with an original inspiration. We never quite get it to come off on the page, or screen, or movement, or stone, or wood, or stage, or...

It's a good meditation piece, though.

Jimmy

[Alan Alda]

...

[Manna]

or sighing could come if it's distanced from of course!

[Alan Alda]

or sighing could come if it's distanced from of course!

Huh?

[Manna]

consider:

1.
"Of course! Of course!" I sighed.

2.
Of course! Of course!
Neo wasn't around
I sighed in trinity

[Alan Alda]

...

[Manna]

I was pointing out the difference between having "I sighed" as part of Of course!, and as part of something else. I wasn't being serious about Neo, I just used him as a (clever?) spacer. I can't sigh an exclamation either.

[Alan Alda]

...