Birthmark
Two women with skin
Like dried apple slices
Stand in a talcum cloud
Over a clean, warm mewling
And slide their fingers
Across the dark ellipse
Just above the right knee.
One grandmother’s flowery dress
Strains from an increase in flesh.
She calls the mark a charm:
She will marry well.
The thin one wears blue jeans
And calls it a blessing:
She will do well in her own right.
The apple slices pull inward
Under the eyes,
But the mother's noble smile
Lays words to rest.
She takes the child,
Turns toward camera,
And slides her well-practiced
Thumb to hide the blemish.
Like one born blind,
The girl grows
Ascribing neither credit
Nor blame to this feature.
And it seems to her now,
As she considers this old photo,
Both prophecies were well said.
Birthmark
Manna~
The POV in this piece is unclear. Is the former baby speaking? If so, how would she know what was said in the context of what you have written since it is a snap and not an audio recording?
The mention of the "recent increase of flesh" is gratuitous. If she is over-flowing her dress, so be it. That comment doesn't help the poem.
This stanza gets lost in itself. What is "forebrain"? "Escorted" also seems an odd choice. There is much I am not understanding here. Can you explain?
Why is the mother's smile "noble"?
Also watch out for stacking adjectives.
Okay. Enough.
Laurie
The POV in this piece is unclear. Is the former baby speaking? If so, how would she know what was said in the context of what you have written since it is a snap and not an audio recording?
The mention of the "recent increase of flesh" is gratuitous. If she is over-flowing her dress, so be it. That comment doesn't help the poem.
The apple slices twist
From old squabbles
Escorted to forebrain
By this newborn variance.
This stanza gets lost in itself. What is "forebrain"? "Escorted" also seems an odd choice. There is much I am not understanding here. Can you explain?
Why is the mother's smile "noble"?
Also watch out for stacking adjectives.
Okay. Enough.
Laurie
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
I will come back and probably edit this post to make myself seem more intelligent after I do some work stuff.Something nice.Some things I agree with you, some things I don't, some things I can defend. It would be nice if you could say something nice, otherwise I might start to think you don't like me. I will come back and probably edit this post to make myself seem more intelligent after I do some work stuff.
I thought as a whole the poem was too self-involved and spoke of too personal a subject to be a 'universally' relate-able poem. It didn't go far enough to make it anything other than singularly about the outcome of the baby with the birthmark, which makes it fall into the category of: So What. How are your readers suppose to 'relate' to the event beyond the tangible? It is not spelled out here.
So, I remarked on small things that I thought might help it, 'as is.'
Definately, I have wasted too much time here.
Laurie
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Oh, brother. I was trying to be funny. I never claimed my poetry was wonderful. I put it here for workshopping to try to help it along, and I value your critiques because I know you won't go easy on me out of friendship or whatever. I do better at fiction, but I don't have time in my life right now to write fiction, otherwise I would. I can satisfy the itch when I whip off a lousy poem, but I don't call myself a poet. Maybe you can't do nice, but I'm still pretty proud of those apple slices. Nobody made you waste your precious time on my scribblings.
I don't know, maybe you can't relate to it because you don't have a family. Maybe your grandmothers who never got along never managed to both make similar remarks and then think they were arguing. Maybe you were never told by Granny you should be proud of something and then have your mother obscure that very thing. Maybe you were never told the same story about your own babyhood so many times that you feel like you remember it. I don't know, but I think these are universal enough.
The mother's smile is noble because the mother thinks it is noble. She thinks she is going to diffuse the Grandmothers' disagreement by focusing on that which should be focused on - the baby. The mother says, "You two are not arguing, and there is no birthmark, so there's nothing to argue about."
You're right about some things - I stacked adjectives here, and I'm deciding where to cut. The increase in flesh is too much; straining tells us all we need to know. The speaker ~ photograph issue might be confusing. And the points I detailed in the last 2 paragraphs may need to be clarified.
That stanza you singled out - you're not the first one to take issue with it. I think part of the trouble is that I'm using the less obvious meanings of some of those words. Newborn - not a baby; Variance - argument; forebrain - this is where our consciousness is borne.
I don't know, maybe you can't relate to it because you don't have a family. Maybe your grandmothers who never got along never managed to both make similar remarks and then think they were arguing. Maybe you were never told by Granny you should be proud of something and then have your mother obscure that very thing. Maybe you were never told the same story about your own babyhood so many times that you feel like you remember it. I don't know, but I think these are universal enough.
The mother's smile is noble because the mother thinks it is noble. She thinks she is going to diffuse the Grandmothers' disagreement by focusing on that which should be focused on - the baby. The mother says, "You two are not arguing, and there is no birthmark, so there's nothing to argue about."
You're right about some things - I stacked adjectives here, and I'm deciding where to cut. The increase in flesh is too much; straining tells us all we need to know. The speaker ~ photograph issue might be confusing. And the points I detailed in the last 2 paragraphs may need to be clarified.
That stanza you singled out - you're not the first one to take issue with it. I think part of the trouble is that I'm using the less obvious meanings of some of those words. Newborn - not a baby; Variance - argument; forebrain - this is where our consciousness is borne.
Thanks for your thoughtful proclamation.
I'm curious, since you are so wise and all knowing, what you do you think of a poem that puts on par a birthmark above one's knee to being born blind?
Thanks again for the prognosis made on my impromptu tag-lines.
L
I'm curious, since you are so wise and all knowing, what you do you think of a poem that puts on par a birthmark above one's knee to being born blind?
Do you think it is justifiable poetic license? or a perhaps an unimaginable bad choice of comparisons considering the innocuous result of one and the huge implications of the other.Like one born blind,
The girl grows
Ascribing neither credit
Nor blame to this feature.
Thanks again for the prognosis made on my impromptu tag-lines.
L
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Lauri, you've got to be kidding!
~~~
Manna, it's a great poem.
after one reading I get ...
the one with a recent increas in flesh - is pregnant
- married -
and that's why she says it means "she will marry well".
The one in blue-jeans, is
a woman's libber
and that's why she reads it as
"she will do well in her own right".
and so on - i understood the whole thing
on one reading ( of course i could be wrong,
but that's a different story)
forebrain by the way is the prefrontal cortex
- it's what they cut out in a lobotomy
as when when old ladies squabble too much,
as they do in this forum,
then they won't squabble anymore.
~~~
Manna - you know --
you just cut too close to the bone for some,
- and this is not a real poetry forum.
that takes courage you won't find here.
~~~
Manna, it's a great poem.
after one reading I get ...
the one with a recent increas in flesh - is pregnant
- married -
and that's why she says it means "she will marry well".
The one in blue-jeans, is
a woman's libber
and that's why she reads it as
"she will do well in her own right".
and so on - i understood the whole thing
on one reading ( of course i could be wrong,
but that's a different story)
forebrain by the way is the prefrontal cortex
- it's what they cut out in a lobotomy
as when when old ladies squabble too much,
as they do in this forum,
then they won't squabble anymore.
~~~
Manna - you know --
you just cut too close to the bone for some,
- and this is not a real poetry forum.
that takes courage you won't find here.
Greg-thanks for addressing Manna's poem on her poem's thread and not my tag-line.
So, the grandmother was recently preggers? Good read. Yes, it is very courageous and clear.
L
So, the grandmother was recently preggers? Good read. Yes, it is very courageous and clear.
L
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
I'm sorry, Laurie,
I lost my temper,
It just seemed to me that you had decided
beforehand for some reason to be purely critical.
There's nothing wrong with harsh criticism,
unless it's for some altogether other reason.
~~
I have been wanting to write to you.
For one thing, because of my father's fulbright grant,
I spent my adolescence in Italy.
(A long time ago! - I am older than you)
And we stayed at Albergo dei Borgognoni
for the first weeks.
(you can't say Borgognoni without singing it
- which explains why opera happened in Italy)
then we moved to a cheaper pensione,
and then all over the place.
Anyway, that's one thing,
Also, I have two new bookshelves!
That's another thing.
And I live by a lake.
(And I have a birth mark, but that's not important right now.)
And there are other things.
~~
But the main thing is this
- something that you may have blamed yourself for.
Or that closed you in anyway.
I need to tell you this:
that it had nothing to do with you.
You are not to blame.
And I don't care what went down before.
It's the nature of the thing that it has
nothing to do with anything that went before.
I am speaking from experience.
I know exactly what I am talking about.
From the perspective of someone you can't hear from.
I'm sorry. I mean well.
I need to say these things.
I lost my temper,
It just seemed to me that you had decided
beforehand for some reason to be purely critical.
There's nothing wrong with harsh criticism,
unless it's for some altogether other reason.
~~
I have been wanting to write to you.
For one thing, because of my father's fulbright grant,
I spent my adolescence in Italy.
(A long time ago! - I am older than you)
And we stayed at Albergo dei Borgognoni
for the first weeks.
(you can't say Borgognoni without singing it
- which explains why opera happened in Italy)
then we moved to a cheaper pensione,
and then all over the place.
Anyway, that's one thing,
Also, I have two new bookshelves!
That's another thing.
And I live by a lake.
(And I have a birth mark, but that's not important right now.)
And there are other things.
~~
But the main thing is this
- something that you may have blamed yourself for.
Or that closed you in anyway.
I need to tell you this:
that it had nothing to do with you.
You are not to blame.
And I don't care what went down before.
It's the nature of the thing that it has
nothing to do with anything that went before.
I am speaking from experience.
I know exactly what I am talking about.
From the perspective of someone you can't hear from.
I'm sorry. I mean well.
I need to say these things.
Greg~
Boy, was I surprised to see an apology. Thanks. You didn't have to, but thanks anyways. I mis-place my temper on occassion myself.
Albergo dei Borgognoni. Does this mean you read my blog? No one here other than a couple of folks (literally) I knew about seemed to read it. It is a lovely hotel and the first place I had Limoncello. Small world. I don't know why I feel so shocked you read my blog, but I am.
The reason I was 'just' critical and not praising of Manna's poem was because it was obvious she was smitten with parts of it and that 'smit' created a blindness (ironically) to what was not working-it was my counter-balance. But it does not matter. The reason I took the road of her not being "funny" in her reply was because the day or so before she withdrew her remark to the troll 'huck' where she agreed with something I had to say, 'because it was too mean.' If you read the thread you'll see why (or maybe not).
Thx,
L
Boy, was I surprised to see an apology. Thanks. You didn't have to, but thanks anyways. I mis-place my temper on occassion myself.
Albergo dei Borgognoni. Does this mean you read my blog? No one here other than a couple of folks (literally) I knew about seemed to read it. It is a lovely hotel and the first place I had Limoncello. Small world. I don't know why I feel so shocked you read my blog, but I am.
The reason I was 'just' critical and not praising of Manna's poem was because it was obvious she was smitten with parts of it and that 'smit' created a blindness (ironically) to what was not working-it was my counter-balance. But it does not matter. The reason I took the road of her not being "funny" in her reply was because the day or so before she withdrew her remark to the troll 'huck' where she agreed with something I had to say, 'because it was too mean.' If you read the thread you'll see why (or maybe not).
Thx,
L
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
well, maybe not. maybe she's just plump.So, the grandmother was recently preggers
all the better; a lot of people tend to put on weight when
they get out of the meat market and into a comfortable marriage.
I saw a good example of it in a friend who got out of
the draft by getting married and having a kid.
In a year he and his wife had both doubled in size.
It doesn't always happen right away. But it always
happens eventually.
yeah, maybe maybe not.The reason I took the road of her not being "funny" in her reply
was because the day or so before she withdrew her remark
to the troll 'huck' where she agreed with something I had to say,
'because it was too mean.' If you read the thread you'll see why
(or maybe not).
But no.
I don't get any of this -at all!
:)
But then I'm just speed-reading these things right now.
~~
When 'huck' appeared, I followed a few links, and saw that he'd
said something nice about Cohen in altogether different forum.
So his appearance here was not 100% spam or trolling.
That's all I was interested in at the time.
I can't read his poems. He's a kid. He's got a kid's chip on
his shoulder. Maybe he'll out grow it, maybe not.
But my guess is that deep down he still wants to please.
So it is very different from an adult chip on the shoulder.
Which is emotional cancer.
I'm sorry again!
I really should read threads before I respond to them.
It would save time later.
So I guess things aren't quite the way I thought they were.
~~
Anyhow.
"dried apple slices"--I like.
it's got the sepia of the snap,
and the apple-pie of the grandmas.
~~
"The mother's smile is noble because the mother thinks it is noble."
Well, a mother's smile is always noble.
It's noble to the kids -- since it's the first thing they ever see.
So it's the noble touchstone of everything else.
Unique in the universe. .
But it's also noble objectively.
--it's got hope and fear and concern and pride and fulfillment
and don't meddle with my kid -- it's got everything in it.
And the sum of so many different colors - is what is meant
by the word 'noble'.
When the kid has a birth mark, it's also got a touch of wounded vanity,
shame and guilt. I can relate to this. I have a birth mark.
It's hardly noticeable but my mother noticed it.
She was a registered nurse. She did everything right.
So I should have come out perfect.
But I had that slight birthmark near my ear.
Back then getting a hair-cut meant "getting your ears pulled back".
Meaning a crewcut. But my mother let me grow mine a little longer,
to cover up the birth mark.
~~
Natalie Merchant had a song called "Wonder".
"Doctors have come
from distant cities
just to see me
disbelieving what they're seeing ...
...
I believe
fate smiled & destiny
laughed as she came to my cradle
'know this child will be gifted
with love, with patience
and with faith
she'll make her way'
..."
etc.
I always felt there was a touch of anger in that song,
Because it should have been her parents - not "fate and destiny".
Anyway. I like the poem.
~~
except maybe
"Escorted to forebrain
By this newborn variance."
Which sounds like how a chemist would put it. :)
I really should read threads before I respond to them.
It would save time later.
So I guess things aren't quite the way I thought they were.
~~
Anyhow.
"dried apple slices"--I like.
it's got the sepia of the snap,
and the apple-pie of the grandmas.
~~
"The mother's smile is noble because the mother thinks it is noble."
Well, a mother's smile is always noble.
It's noble to the kids -- since it's the first thing they ever see.
So it's the noble touchstone of everything else.
Unique in the universe. .
But it's also noble objectively.
--it's got hope and fear and concern and pride and fulfillment
and don't meddle with my kid -- it's got everything in it.
And the sum of so many different colors - is what is meant
by the word 'noble'.
When the kid has a birth mark, it's also got a touch of wounded vanity,
shame and guilt. I can relate to this. I have a birth mark.
It's hardly noticeable but my mother noticed it.
She was a registered nurse. She did everything right.
So I should have come out perfect.
But I had that slight birthmark near my ear.
Back then getting a hair-cut meant "getting your ears pulled back".
Meaning a crewcut. But my mother let me grow mine a little longer,
to cover up the birth mark.
~~
Natalie Merchant had a song called "Wonder".
"Doctors have come
from distant cities
just to see me
disbelieving what they're seeing ...
...
I believe
fate smiled & destiny
laughed as she came to my cradle
'know this child will be gifted
with love, with patience
and with faith
she'll make her way'
..."
etc.
I always felt there was a touch of anger in that song,
Because it should have been her parents - not "fate and destiny".
Anyway. I like the poem.
~~
except maybe
"Escorted to forebrain
By this newborn variance."
Which sounds like how a chemist would put it. :)
