BOB DYLAN IS A GREATER SONGSTER THAN LEONARD COHEN

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:10 am

Red Poppy wrote:Cohen...Dylan....Waits.
Tom Waits for no man!

A kindred spirit, methinks.

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Will check out the Brian Ferry (I hadnt even heard of him before) thanks. As always I would recommend the Gotta Serve Somebody cover album for Dylan. Its the best Dylan album there is or ever has been (of course in my hopelessly biased opinion) and he only sings once on it.

ps As I was saying to Margaret, Tim and Rob the other day, this place is like the Hotel California: You can check out any time you like, but you can Never leave...

I am not sure that is altogether a good thing.....

margaret · Post by **margaret** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:59 pm

Bryan Ferry was the front man in the British band Roxy Music. A bit of a lounge lizard. Has done some good stuff but judging by his performances in the last few years, a bit past his best. But, saying that, my 2 sisters still drool over him and have tickets to see him again soon.

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:11 pm

Ok, Kush. Upon reflection, I think you'll dislike it as much as I imagine other true Dylan fans will. I have listened to it all now, and it is definitely made for commercial appeal, and half the lyrics of his covers are missing. But that don't make it junk. I very much like his versions of Positively 4th St, and The Gates of Eden. I have noted that album you mention, ta.

I liked some of Roxy Music, Margaret. Best past Bryan Ferry are undoubtedly his versions of These Foolish Things, and Smoke Gets in your Eyes. He has the perfect smooth voice for those songs. I can see myself in the attic again tonight.

Nothing is altogether a good thing.

Cheers,

Diane

ps added later: I have played this Dylanesque Ferry album all night and I'm lovin' it! It rocks!

pps my fave Dylan cover is To Ramona by Irish singer Sinead Lohan. She sings it beautifully.

DBCohen · Post by **DBCohen** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:31 am

When speaking of the great singers-songwriters who came out of the ‘60’s and still survive today, it’s not just the duo of Dylan and Cohen, but a trio, with Paul Simon. It is also interesting to reflect on how each of them regarded his Jewishness. For Dylan it was a struggle, discovering Christianity at some stage and then pulling back out (or not?). For LC it was always an obvious part of his work, even when he got interested in other forms of spirituality. For Simon it was totally irrelevant, as far as I know, and there’s never a hint of it in anything he’s done.

mat james · Post by **mat james** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:18 pm

I've been analogising for years to friends (when discussing the spiritual abilities/perspectives of songwriters) the following;

Dylan got a Degree
Van the man Morrison got his Masters
Leonard got his Doctorate

But now I feel I may have undervalued Van.
In several of his elongated performances, he takes me to other spaces; when he loses himself in a song... chanting and sinking... "Into the Mystic" .
For me; that is really the music of an undifferentiated soul.

Matj

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:56 pm

Mat, I have been having great fun recently, playing Van the Man's And it Stoned Me, on my guitar. I don't play, but the chords are easy and the words are funny. "And it stoned me to my soul, stoned me just like jelly roll, and it sto-o-o-o-oned me."

. But time to dig out the old Van tapes tonight, now you have reminded me how good he is. Thanks! Yep, my Bob Dylan phase is over. Van tonight.

I wanna go out in the countryside, oh sit by the clear, cool, crystal water.
Get my spirit, way back to the feeling, deep in my soul, I wanna feel
oh, so close to the One, close to the One, close to the One, close to the One.
And that's why, I keep on singing baby
my hymns to the silence, hymns to the silence, oh my hymns to the silence, hymns to the silence.
Oh, hymns to the silence, oh hymns to the silence, oh, hymns to the silence, hymns to the silence.

I walked in my greatcoat down through the days of the leaves.
No before after, yes after before, we were shining our light into the days of blooming wonder
in the eternal presence, in the presence of the flame.
Didn't I come to bring you a sense of wonder? Didn't I come to lift your fiery vision bright?
Didn't I come to bring you a sense of wonder in the flame?

And when that fog horn blows I will be coming home.
And when that fog horn blows I want to hear it, I don't have to fear it
and I want to rock your gypsy soul, just like way back in the days of old.
And together we will float into the mystic, come on girl.

No Guru, no method, no teacher, just you and I and nature and the Father
and the Son and the Holy Ghost in the garden wet with rain.
No Guru, no method, no teacher, just you and I and nature and the Holy Ghost
in the garden, in the garden, wet with rain.

No Guru, no method, no teacher, just you and I and nature and the Father in the garden

Diane

MadisonB · Post by **MadisonB** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:16 pm

I gave my sister, who is a hard-core Dylan fan (she has a bumper sticker that says 'I brake just like a little girl'), a copy of LC's greatest hits and a copy of DH and she told me she couldn't even get through them.

I think someone on this board said that an LC fan can listen to Dylan but it's very hard to get a Dylan fan to like LC.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:23 pm

Hi Madison ~

How old is your sister? If younger, give her time

... though, hard as it is to imagine, there may be some thrust to that theory. Ken might be able to shed some light, as he's a regular with the Dylan people... and he loves Cohen [of course, there are always exceptions; still, an interesting theory though... well, I knew of and loved Dylan first, and my transition to Leonard was seamless coming over... not so seamless returning]. Love her bumper sticker, though.

~ Lizzy

MadisonB · Post by **MadisonB** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:28 pm

She's in her early 30's (I'm the older, but not necessarily wiser one).

I think she may secretly like LC but doesn't want to admit it. We've always been like that. We don't want to let on that the other sibling was actually right about something...

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:31 pm

I think she may secretly like LC but doesn't want to admit it. We've always been like that. We don't want to let on that the other sibling was actually right about something...

I've never had a sister

, but I think you're on to something there

. Time will reveal all

.

~ Lizzy

mat james · Post by **mat james** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:28 am

And when that fog horn blows I will be coming home.
And when that fog horn blows I want to hear it, I don't have to fear it
and I want to rock your gypsy soul, just like way back in the days of old.
And together we will float into the mystic, come on gir

l.

Right on, Diane. I lose myself in this song every time. Especially with a few drops of moonshine.
"I can see the boats out on the harbour
and it's almost
and it's almost
... almost independence Daaaayyy.

I think I got the quote right, but I'm usually lost somewhere in the song by then

Matj

hydriot · Post by **hydriot** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:29 am

MadisonB wrote:I think someone on this board said that an LC fan can listen to Dylan but it's very hard to get a Dylan fan to like LC.

Very interesting thread. I first heard Dylan in about 1964 (Bringing It All Back Home) while visiting a godfather in Jersey, first heard LC in 1969 at a London party and was introduced to the music of Van Morrison in 1971 by a girlfriend who told me glumly he was the only good thing to come out of Northern Ireland.

Technically, I suppose that makes me a Dylan fan who came to like LC who came to like The Man. But in reality, I admire all three, and wouldn't dream of comparing them because the whole point is that they appeal to different aspects of my character, so which one I play depends entirely on my mood.

Thus, LC is introverted (in the best sense), Dylan is eclectic, and Van Morrison is extrovert.

But if I were pressed to explain what single common attribute attracts me to these three great men it would be 'word-play' (which is when a singer-songwriter comes closest to being a poet)

Every-one on this forum knows LC's word-play intimately, so I won't repeat any here, but when my teenage daughter recently paid me the ultimate compliment by telling me I was a 'cool dad', it wasn't one of LC's word-plays that sprang to mind but that wonderful phrase of Dylan that so sums up my present mind-set as I prepare to leap joyously into second childhood:

"Ah, but I was so much older then: I'm younger than that now".

Antonio · Post by **Antonio** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:40 am

When speaking of the great singers-songwriters who came out of the ‘60’s and still survive today, it’s not just the duo of Dylan and Cohen, but a trio, with Paul Simon.

It's always a fancy thing to see how the rest of the world simply does not exist, there's no place for the singer songwriters on another languagues, such statements reveal the sign of the hegemonic culture..., c´est un peu triste de voir ça, c'est tout...

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:17 am

It's always a fancy thing to see how the rest of the world simply does not exist, there's no place for the singer songwriters on another languagues, such statements reveal the sign of the hegemonic culture..., c´est un peu triste de voir ça, c'est tout...

Hi Antonio ~

I'm sorry to see you say that and it's because you're making a very good point. The problem is that I rarely hear music from your side of the world and I don't know another language. It seems that the English language is 'universal' in the sense that many understand it, and songs by singers singing in English are played in other countries; whereas, the reverse is rarely true here. You've likely heard the songs sung by the singers being discussed here, on the radio; and, possibly, during their time, on a regular basis, even. Cohen even gets airplay there; whereas, here, it's exceedingly rare.

It seems to me to be more an issue of exposure and understanding than being closed off to music from other places and in other languages. I'm open to refining my premise to be more accurate, or to you pointing out to me where I'm simply in error with it. I'm still listening to the links of Barbara that you've sent me and enjoying them very much; yet, I also find myself watching them and wishing that Lightning would get her hands on them, so I would actually know the pathos, sadness, or joy of what she's singing. I love watching and listening to Brel, with the sub-titles. You are able to listen to Leonard, Bob, Paul, and Brel, and understand all four of them.

I wish that we were required to immerse ourselves in other languages, as other countries appear to be.

I'm sorry that you feel offended and sad in your observations, Antonio. I really am.

~ Lizzy