There is a war

Candice · Post by **Candice** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:38 am

Yes, I was going to New York City. I had saved a third of the money necessary. But I don't think I will now. I only have eight posts, nine with this one. My posts on the hell-bent on war thread were not welcomed. Not because they were cut and paste but because the views in them were not acceptable to the majority that post there.

And now I come to read about the 2004 event and there is more dislike of Americans. Antropos criticises America and everyone tell him that in N.Y. at the event there won't be anybody who is for the War in Iraq. ONly people who would join peace marches. There is great animosity towards Americans and others on this Forum if they were for the war. And I have noticed that those who are against the war drag this issue all over the other threads. WHy doesn't it stay contained in the Hell-Bent on War Thread. Where it belongs. It is dragged all over the Forum by the anti-war posters. That's why the fights break out. I don't blame Linda and others for getting upset. I wouldn't like it if the Leonard Cohen event were held in London and everybody constantly criticised and belittled my country and it's people and Prime Minister. I wouldn't attend either.

tori · Post by **tori** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:15 am

Will I be in New York for the event ? No thanks. I am not of the anti-war crowd and would not feel comfortable with this group.

George.Wright · Post by **George.Wright** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:18 am

Please reconsider...............these posts transcend locations....
Georges

John K. · Post by **John K.** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:37 am

post deleted

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:58 am

Your description is the way I've heard the Events to be, John K., and is the way I see this one to be, as well. I had hoped to see the Chelsea prior to the Event, but in any case, look forward to seeing it period.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:16 am

Linda ~ I realized after I shut down [from before] that I may have missed the point of your first sentence, and realized later that it may have been that Hydra went so well because "Lizzytysh you weren't at the Hydra event!" Sorry if I let a perfectly good insult go by. Sure didn't mean to oversight your efforts. Somehow, I get the feeling that you would like for your opinion [not "reason" I noticed] of why you're not going, to affect anyone else from going. Still another campaign/crusade of yours. Particularly, since you had long ago expressed not thinking you'd be able to go, anyway, for some reason. I'm also wondering why you haven't made better use of that button here, where you also don't have to "put up with" me, instead of getting yourself so riled.

What I am finding with you [Linda], Candice, and Tori, with your plans to not go because of other people's opinions on the war/Bush......is that you're leading with your opinions, in your decisions not to go, and those opinions are of other people because of theirs. What about your opinions of Leonard, his music, Perla and the opportunity to see her, and the opportunity to meet people who don't even post here, as well as those who do and with whom you agree? I see a table for three already, with a number more willing to join you, including us. Many who went to Hydra do not post here. And how is it that you're unable to set your opinions and differences aside for something as magnificent as a celebration of Leonard?

Linda · Post by **Linda** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:59 am

Well, Lizzytysh I am about to give up this message board also and it has nothing to do with my love of LC's music or poetry. Not that I won't check this website to see what is going on with LC, I am still waiting for his book and want to know when that comes out. Love the country but can't stand the scene.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:04 am

Linda,

At least you were glad when Antropos decided he would go, after all.

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:50 am

Linda, Candice, Tori -
I'm bewildered, I really am.
I have posted earlier my sadness not to be able to come to New York. One of the reasons, among many, I really should have liked coming to New York was to finally find out again how lovely those people are I tend to disagree with on some issues. (Oh brave new world that hath such people in't!)
Now I am puzzled.

I could understand many things said in the rage of a discussion that involved our innermost feelings and deepest convictions, I could understand them considering the heat of the moment. Now it should cool down, and we should cool down, and right now I look at this.

Please tell me you were making a rather poor joke!

The battle you supported seems to be won; why does it seem so much harder to win a peace?

Tom

PS: I never wished for a button to push you off. Please don't make me. If there's some self-respect left, you should consider saying "I'm sorry"...

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:55 am

partisan, lizzytysh -

strange indeed. and so utterly unexpected...

But I like it.

Tom

Candice · Post by **Candice** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:40 pm

Tom,

I will not apolgise to you or anyone else for what I have printed on this thread about New York Event. I said I was sorry for cutting and pasteing on the Hell-Bent Thread. But this is too much. I don't regret any of my words here. I was criticised for not giveing my perspective or viewpoint. Now I am told to say I am sorry when I do give my opinion.

Antropos said he was not coming to New York becaucse "would we go to Berlin when the Nazi's had been fighting" And called America the "house of killers". And all of you fell all over yourselves to pat him on the head and assure him that Peace marchers would be there at the Leonard Cohen Event. Why is he allowed to write whatever he wants about why he isn't coming to New York? BUt I am not allowed to write what I want about why I am not coming to New York? Answer me that. Don't say it's because I did not write politely. This message board is filled with things that are not polite. Some of which you have written.

"House of Killers" Why should I want to attend an event where people have applauded someone who says my friends and family are Nazi's? I am thrilled that the British and Americans have gotten rid of Saddam. You saywe should all calm down and then you write "If you have any self-respect left, say you are sorry"? That't what many of you do on this message board. You say something pious and then you end your post with an insult. It cancels out anything you have written.

SO NO APOLOGY FROM ME.

Linda · Post by **Linda** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:41 pm

Tom, I have a lot of self respect left, but first off tell me to whom I owe and apology? And why?

I didn't think it was a matter of winning or lossing on my war stance here, I only voiced what was my opinion. I am happy for the Iraqi people being rid of Saddam.

If I am the reason, Candice and Tori are not going to NY to them I say "I am sorry."

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:38 pm

Tori, Candice

I owe you an apology. I should have explicitely excluded you from this postscript of my post:

PS: I never wished for a button to push you off. Please don't make me. If there's some self-respect left, you should consider saying "I'm sorry"...

This "PS" was directed to Linda, and to Linda alone.

Please forgive me my negligence. It won't undo the damage to tell you that I had just got up after a working day that had been much too long and too short a night's sleep, so I won't try to excuse myself.

Sorry, I'll try to be more concentrated in the future.

Tom

PS: I hope that it isn't necessary to say that "I never wished for a button to push you off", either.

Tom

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:44 pm

Tom/Candice ~ I'm

by your [Candice's] thinking that Tom's comment was addressed to you, in that the P.S. was completely to itself [with Linda amongst those being addressed in the post as a whole] ~ and the reference made within it directly tied in, verbatim, to Linda's post and remark. You never made any "button" remarks. Are you using these "mis"interpretations to make your own, additional comments ~ or are you really misinterpreting them as having applied to you in the first place?

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:44 pm

Linda,

A.
you wrote:

Lizzytysh you weren't at the Hydra event! And quite frankly I would have loved to have been there. You will be at the New York event and quite frankly I don't want to be there, for that reason. Your anti-Bush campaign on this board was totally out of place in my opinion, a disagreement on the war was one thing but you and your political agenda is something else. Bizaarre actually. I am not going to take a chance at putting up with you where I can't turn you off by pushing a button.
_________________
Linda

I still believe that you owe an apology for this rather nasty post. It suggests:
1) you'd have felt comfortable at the Hydra event because lizzytysh wasn't there,
2) you won't come to NYC next year because she might (and hopefully will) be there,
3) you wish for a button to "turn her off"

To my mind this is more than what you could call the lack of politesse that sometimes came with the discussions in that other thread. It is essentially different, because it is a personal invective, directed not to Elizabeth as representing a certain "opinion", "view" or even "faction", but at her person as such.

B.
I never wrote about you "winning or losing" your "war stance" here. But I more than once confirmed that I respect you voicing your opinion. What I had been talking about was the war in and on Iraq. I had thought we could return to a more peaceful way of communication after the war, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

C.
Although repeating myself doing so, i say: I, too, am glad that the Iraqi people got rid of Saddam, but still hold the price was way too high, and will still rise for many a year.

I hope that I have now sufficiently answered the questions you needed answered before apologizing.

Tom

PS: Still I do not wish for a button to push you off.

There is a war

A strange but precious alliance...