Some call it Australia Day

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:08 pm

Hi Kush,

I am not sure these worlds can co-exist.

Why not? Because everyone must become 'like us'? Even if we set aside the arguments about whether things are better just because they are 'natural', vs things are better just because they are 'more advanced', their way of life is as least as valid as ours. It reminds me of a movie, don't recall the title, but Jodie Foster played the part of a girl who was found wild and feral and had made an existence for herself somewhere out in the wilds. She wanted to stay there but 'they' tried to 'civilise' her, and it went to court. One line I clearly recall from the film is her saying: "my sorrows are no greater than yours...".

And even if they do....for how long and to what purpose?

How long is a question of the extent to which the 'civilised' world abuses their rights and devalues their ways.

But what if their destiny is to be swallowed up by the overwhelming 'modern civilization' and technology? I dont know that answer to that.

Many tribal cultures do live on literal islands, an ideal place for them. As you know, there remain vast areas of wilderness in the world, and there should be space for everbody, surely.

Can you realistically (and by necessity artificially) keep tiny islands of 'primitive' society close to nature and to earth in the midst of modern society everywhere?

Which of us lead the artificial lives is debatable. I agree that allowing tribes the isolation they need to retain to remain intact will become ever more problematic, with the relentless march of 'progress' and development, and, very sadly, eventually some or many might be swallowed up.

BTW thanks for that terrific link. Despite appearances I do have a special academic interest in primitive and isolated societies.

You are welcome. You have an academic interest? Cool. My interest is not directly related to current tribal societies, but did lead me to take an interest in them. A few years back I wrote a few articles for outdoor magazines about the reasons we are so attracted to the great outdoors. I did a bit of research on evolutionary psychology, and became fascinated by the idea that the mind evolved in tandem with the body to cope with the circumstances of our evolutionary past, and what this might explain. For example, our sense of natural beauty could be related to significant events relating to survival for early man. A lot of natural phenomena is deeply evocative, such as sunsets, thunder, gathering clouds and fire. Such things suggest an imminent and consequential change: darkness, a storm, a blaze, and it would have been of survival value to pay special attention to these things. Also, the features of a landscape that we find beautiful (paths, trees, hills, rivers, trees, mountain ranges) are very much related to land legibility, and survival. I think so much of our true nature, and what inspires us, relates back to our ancestral past, and "primitive" people who still live that way are an immensely valuable part of the world. If we kill them off, it is another nail in the coffin for humanity, and I do feel that strongly about it.

I'd be interested for you to tell me, either here or in PM, about your particular areas of interest.

Good wishes,

Diane

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:51 pm

Diane,

The movie you may be thinking of might be "The Emerald Forest."

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:10 pm

Hi Steven,

It's not that one, but you did prompt me to look it up, and the film I was thinking of is in fact, "Nell".

Diane

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:20 pm

Hi Diane,

What threw me off was your mentioning Jodie Foster. "The Emerald
Forest," has Meg Foster. Both films have "primitive" cultures and
settings within them.

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:25 pm

Hi Steven,

I see

, I have never seen The Emerald Forest. Is it worth a watch? Thanks for making me look up which movie I was thinking of. It is typical of me to remember lines from a movie, but not what it was called, or often even the names of the actors

.

Good wishes,

Diane

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:34 pm

Hi Diane,

It probably is worth a watch to you, as you've expressed interest
in the subject matter. It's been nearly twenty years since I've
seen it. I don't recall it as a great movie, though, but worthy,
among other reasons, for the issues it presented.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:05 pm

I recall seeing "Nell" a long time ago, and being moved by its integral, core-human-values nature. When I read what you said about it, I couldn't remember the name, either [and I felt

, as "The Emerald Forest" didn't ring a bell] ~ I have trouble with all those same, memory issues

, Diane. When I walk out of a film, I've forgotten the characters' names and refer to them by who the actor was; and, then, after awhile, I [often] forget who the actor was and the name of the movie, but still the jist or particulars of the film. I guess [hope

?] that's what's most important in the end. With everything you've been saying here, I feel you should see the movie. I'll get "Thelma and Louise" and you get "Nell."

I'm enjoying reading this discussion.

~ Lizzy

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:42 am

When I did a tour of Central Australia some years a go I saw tragedy. It wasn't the desert wind, the blue sky, Uluru (Ayers Rock) or pollution. It was the terrible state of the indigenous people. From that first shot fired 218 years ago by the European to that last flagon put down this morning, the Aborigine has suffered. There are some reserves in the far north and in the centre but most wilderness in Australia is designated crown land. A common practice of Aboriginal kids is to sniff petrol. They sniff it until their brains 'cave in'. It is a cheap, effective way to numb the pain of their empty lives. Aboriginal Australia is a sham. Thus this thread.

Nell was a beautiful film with Jodie Foster and Liam Neeson. I think all of us, left to fend for ourselves in the wilderness as a youngster would revert to a more 'primitive' way of being. It is what we intrinsically know; is built into us. All of our culture: this architecture, these motor cars, this modern warfare, this fashion is in the end so fabricated, so artificial, so phoney. The real guts of Humanity has yet to be seen - an affinity with nature and a belonging to some form of mysticism.

Boss

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:24 pm

Hi Diane,
I still intend to respond to this...its just that I have very little time for long and thoughtful posts (or thats the idea) these days.

later.....

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:23 pm

Hi Kush, no prob at all. I am preoccupied with other things myself at the moment, and have little time to be on here, so I know how it goes. I look forward to your response when it comes.

Lizzy said:

I feel you should see the movie. I'll get "Thelma and Louise" and you get "Nell."

But I already saw "Nell", Lizzy

. You must still get T&L though, I'm counting on it, for Berlin

.

Boss, yes, I have heard about how many dispossessed Aboriginal Australian youths sniff petrol. It is heartbreaking and unnecessary.

I think all of us, left to fend for ourselves in the wilderness as a youngster would revert to a more 'primitive' way of being. It is what we intrinsically know; is built into us. All of our culture: this architecture, these motor cars, this modern warfare, this fashion is in the end so fabricated, so artificial, so phoney.

Yes, I agree with you to a degree. But I'm not sure we'll ever turn the clock back, unless some natural or made-made disaster leaves us with no choice. The agricultural and then the industrial revolution did free-up mankind to use his immense intelligence to develop science and technology and art in remarkable ways, and the rise of nation states and the rule of law has been immensely beneficial for many of us. We will have to find a way forward from where we are, to make an obvious statement.

Diane

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:50 pm

Oh, that's right, Diane

! It was the proper name ~ not the viewing ~ you were needing

.

Well, I'm still on the thrift hunt for "Thelma & Louise." I'm getting warm. This past weekend, the clerk and I searched the bins twice because she said, "I know we did have it here at one point." That's the closest I've gotten. I'm resisting paying just under $20 for it, depending on where I get it.

~ Lizzy

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:57 am

Dear Diane,

I'm glad you agree 'to a degree'. I understand that the modern world, with all its intelligent ways and beings, has made Life abundantly easier - but what good is it all compared to you screaming your lungs out to "Whole Lotta Love" or "Black Dog"? What is it all compared to a dance? An Aboriginal corroboree, a New York City discotheque? What is it to Bob Dylan's dove sleeping in the sand? Pierre Cardin and Mercedes Benz can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. They are at the periphery, not the centre. Yet so much of our 'intelligent' world gravitates to their shallow tune, their money making scams. I wonder if we 'thought' more 15,000 years ago than we do today? From my understanding there are a few 'tribal' people left today. The ones not ruined by modern man must have problems, but they exist 'out there'; and the odds are that all of them have a 'spirit world'. Unlike many of us. We live in our air conditioned or heated boxes screaming to the Universe "just give me a taste of spirituality", and we are left 'stone cold'. Buy an I-pod, a CD, a DVD etc...; this will fill in the vacuum, the hole. We often only observe, rarely do we participate. Stuff it, dance around your kitchen!!!

The way forward is to know from whence we came, to know where we presently are and to have some vision or understanding of the future. All of this without exorbitance.

Regards Boss

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:41 am

Hi Boss,

I think our desire for 'more' was also forged during our evolution. We have always exploited our environment to make our lives as comfortable as possible. It has become counter-productive now, of course, and that is one of our Problems.

I don't think there is anything I can add to what I have already said about why I respect tribal cultures, and believe that supporting their continued existence is important, so I'll just copy another quote:

"It is worth asking repeatedly: Where are our deepest roots? We are Old World catarrhine primates, brilliant emergent animals, defined genetically by our unique origins, blessed by our newfound biological genuis...To the extent that we depend on prosthetic devices to keep ouselves and the biosphere alive, we will render everything fragile. To the extent that we banish the rest of life, we will impoverish our own species for all time. And if we should surrender our genetic heritage . . . and our ethics and art . . . in the name of progress, imagining ourselves godlike and absolved from our ancient heritage, we will become nothing." E O Wilson, Consilience.

But I also have the view that we have less control over things than we think, and that even if it does eventually all go wrong, and we become extinct for whatever reason, that the universe will continue just fine without us. In fact I imagine the universe singing, some time in the future, "got along without you before I met you, gonna get along without you now...".

Good wishes,

Diane

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:38 am

Life is just too special to disappear...not to mention that mystical dance behind it all.

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:52 am

Boss said:

Life is just too special to disappear...not to mention that mystical dance behind it all.

Heaven is under our feet. Henry David Thoreau

In the woods, we return to reason and faith...I am part and parcel of God... I am the lover of uncontained and immortal beauty. In the wilderness, I find something more dear and connate than in streets or villages. In the tranquil landscape, and especially in the distant line of the horizon, man beholds somewhat as beautiful as his own nature.
R W Emerson

For I have learned to look on nature, not as in the hour of thoughtless youth, but hearing oftentimes the still, sad music of humanity.
William Wordsworth

One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
William Shakespeare

I thank you God for this most amazing day, for the leaping greenly spirits of trees, and for the blue dream of sky and for everything which is natural, which is infinite, which is yes.
e. e. cummings

Diane