Secret co-writer of "Chelsea Hotel"?

[tomsakic]

Lightning, the fact that LC is not mentioned in Joplin's biographies doesn't mean much, except that he is not so important on some kind og general US level of musical history. Cohen is rarely mentioned in Dylan's biographies (or never), and I checked also Joni Micthel's official biography - he's mentioned only twice. First, short mention that he influenced her (And that's all? Their relationship? Etc...?), and mention that her song about visiting "his house" and "father's gun" is about Cohen and her visit to his Montreal home. And that's all - and it's not objective.
Also, I checked Nico's biography in bookstore (I do this using Index) - no Cohen! - Also, now this may be wrong because it's not deeply checked - as much I understood, in Nico's biographies any writer didn't tell much about her "inability" to sing. The interesting fact was that in one of his interviews LC reffered to that, and told that only he noted she's actually deaf on one hear! That was when he - I guess - tried to persuade her by singing Take This Longing to her in Chelsea Hotel room
So, it seems that biographers of Nico, Janis, etc. don't check the biographies of other artists at all, although i.e. this LC's remark would be very good fact for understanding of Nico's art, not mentioning how Leonard's quotes ("Arian ice queen") and songs about her (Joan of Arc, Take This Longing) would help in explaining the hypnotical appeal she had.

Now, Lissauer and Songs for Rebecca - I hope we'll hear more from Lissauer soon. Anyhow, for the matter of record, here is the tracklisting for Songs for Rebecca / Bryn Mawr show:

Came So Far For Her Beauty (2)
Don't Go Home With Your Hard-On (3)
Guerrero [early Iodine] (3)
I Guess It's Time [early The Smokey Life] (2)
The Traitor Song (2)

Source: http://www.leonardcohenlive.com

The tracks under 3 were composed by Spector in 1977 from the beginning, with same lyrics from Leonard, for Death of a Ladies' Man. The Bryn Mawr versions, credited to Cohen-Lissauer, are set to totally different music and - at least for me - much and much better!

Those under 2 were done for Recent Songs. Now, I think that Lissauer deserved credits also for "The Traitor" - if he co-wrote the music, because the music is more or less almost the same. But I don't think it's the same with "The Smokey Life" - this early version is called "I Guess It's Time" and it's quite diofferent song, musically and lyricaly; the chorus is different (hence the "I Guess It's Time" title), and the later title line, "Smokey Life is practiced everywhere", is only in one line.

My wild guess why Lissauer received the credits only for "Came So Far For Beauty" and not for "The Traitor" is that "Came So Far For Beauty" was NOT recorded in 1979 at all, but Leonard used the 1975' demo version from Songs for Rebecca. I say so because 1)when LC started to work on Recent Songs with his new producer, Joni Mitchell's (yes - her:-) Henry Lewy and (yes, Joni Mitchell's band) The Passenger, they started by Leonard's presenting of a demo tape titled The Smokey Life - what we can conclude is that tape actually was the tape of Songs for Rebecca. And 2) Lissauer doesn't appear at Recent Songs album at all, except for "Came So Far For Beauty". This point could be proven by fact that - while "The Traitor" was (re-)recorded with new band credited for the rest of Recent Songs' songs (so, obviously with Lewy and in 1979) - "Came So Far For Beauty" credits claim:

Bass: John Miller
Piano: John Lissauer
Co-written, co-produced and arranged by John Lissauer

Source: http://www.leonardcohencroatia.com/discography.php

Johnny Miller worked with Leonard in 1975, and he was actually member of Lissauer's team - he also toured as bass player with Leonard only in 1974 and 1975, all three tours on which Lissauer was the band leader! And Lissauer played piano on 1974-75 three tours, and on 1974' New Skin..., and he arranged New Skin... and apparently Songs for Rebecca.

So, I believe, they shared it something like:
1. Leonard used 1975 version of "Came So Far For Beauty" arranged by Lissauer, claimed to be cowritten by Lissauer, and recorded and played by Lissauer and another 1975 production team member. So credits goes to "Cohen-Lissauer".
2. "The Smokey Life" is rewritten and recorded with new producer and band and in new arrangements. Lissauer gets honest credit in thanks for work on earlier version.
3. "The Traitor" is almost the same as 1975 Bryn Mawr live version. But the song is recorded again, with new band anda producer, keeping general Lissauer's arrangements (according to Bryn Mwr live version). Lissauer gets the credits in thanks for work on earlier version.

Now, in this light, thanks to Ron Cornelius in liner notes, for help on earlier version of Chelsea Hotel seems very honest to me. First, we know that Leonard writes all of his lyrics alone (at least, he's the most capable of that), and sometimes he looks for help in arrangements, or chords, or setting to music - of helps to finish lyrics for his friend's music, like he did for Sharon /helped couple of her songs for Diana Ross/, and Jennifer Warnes). I think that - because Lissauer's arrangements were erased and he didn't play or arrange the songs and he totally dissapeared from 1979 versions, he simply wasn't credited, or his actual contribution for honestly credited and thanked in liner notes..

[Young dr. Freud]

I'm confused.



YdF

[tomsakic]

I am not.

[Kjelling]

Tom makes some good points regarding "Came So Far for Beauty" being a Songs for Rebecca outtake. Thank you for that chain of thought! This also goes to indicate that the "demos" were of quite good quality. (However, I don't see any reason to think that Lissauer just "claimed" to have co-written it when everybody – the LP, BMI, ASCAP and Copyright Office – splits credit between him and LC.)

Now, for the matter at hand. I emailed Ron Cornelius and asked him if he had any input on the so-called #2 version of "Chelsea Hotel", which we all know and love. Here is his full reply, quoted with permission:

There is no #1 and #2 of the Chelsea Hotel – they're both exactly the same. Leonard and his manager of the time (Marty Machette) merely added a number two to the song in order to re-copyright it under another number – therefore screwing me completely out. When that happened, I hired Harold Ornstein (a New York music attorney) and went after them. I had to hire a 'Musicologist' to get involved. The outcome was that the 'Musicologist' (who was ready to testify in court if it came to that) said that "Whoever Wrote #1 – Wrote #2, they're exactly the same". At that point, with them knowing I would beat them in court, they offered me $8,500.00 to walk away from the whole thing. I was almost destitute at that time – I took the money and walked. They had convinced me that, due to the porno lyric in the song, it would never be released anyway – and you know damn well that they knew it was going on the next album. I did a very stupid thing, but was down at the time – and I'm certainly not the only writer that something like this has happened to. Anyway, I still receive my 50% from all worldwide 'Performance' on the song, as BMI doesn't allow such tactics to injure writers. Now, to make the record straight – Leonard wrote the lyrics – but what he had going musically was dumb. My entire input was melodic and, of course, the musical changes that are what the song is.

Leonard goes on record saying that "Ron helped me with a chord change on an earlier version" – when, the truth is, there was and is no earlier version – and I musically manicured what he had going – with a lot more than one of the chords in the song being mine. When it was finished, Leonard told everyone in our outfit – "ya know, that's the first song I've co-written – and I'm glad it was with Ron" – that's a direct quote from Leonard – then later, the dollar signs got in his eyes and he lost sight of honesty, and for that matter, friendship. Anyway, if you've read the latest write-ups on him – he's been cheated out of a lot of money by someone he thought was his friend – "It's Just A Taste Of His Own Medicine".

Cornelius is right that the 1972 "Chelsea Hotel" starts out exactly the same and has an identical melody. The fact that Leonard later cut some verses and rewrote some other words doesn't constitute writing a new song. It seems adding that crucial #2 was a clever move.

[jarkko]

From Leonard:

Ron did help me with the music. It wasn't all "dumb"; the tune was there, the movement from major to minor was already established, but he did help. I didn't know about the legal stuff. I'm sorry to hear about it, and I deeply apologize. I wish he had gotten in touch with me personally. I hope he will now.
Leonard

Addendum on March 19, 2006: (also posted on the 10th page in this thread!!!

Leonard writes:

Ron Cornelius and I had dinner the other night.
Twenty years since we saw each other last.
Our old friendship was still there.
His memory is better than mine.
From now on, let it be known
we wrote Chelsea Hotel together.

[Kjelling]

To be fair to Ron, he didn't make the comments to the Songfacts website or to this forum unsolicited. In both cases he was asked direct questions.

I have relayed Leonard's reply to him and hope both parties excuse us nosy fans for stirring this up thirty years later.

"Greater the man, greater the responsibility," they said about Knut Hamsun. He himself said, "In a hundred years all will be forgotten anyway."

[lizzytysh]

Thank you for contacting Leonard directly on this, Jarkko. My immediate thoughts last night were, "I want to hear from Leonard. This doesn't sound like Leonard to me, and the jury's still out for me until I do. It's only one side, one which I don't take at face value, and one I already considered questionable. And referring to what Leonard had already written as 'dumb'!?!" I didn't respond immediately, and just let it go for last night. I knew it was a 'predictable' response from me, and decided to wait 'til morning. It was a lot to try to take in and respond to, when it was already past time for sleep.

When I saw this just now, however, I wished I'd said it when I thought it, but as you had already, instantly done exactly what you, of course, already knew was needed, rather than just let this sit here like a bellowing elephant, it's probably just as well that I didn't, as some might've read into the sequence of events what was not warranted. Still, when it comes to Leonard's integrity and goodwill, I feel it's best to weigh in immediately; I wish I had, and just dealt with any untoward remarks, if they arose.

I've never heard of anything that Leonard has written referred to as "dumb," the exception being some people's views of the song "Dear Heather." For me, that's not dumb, at all, either; so seeing this word struck me as intentionally inflammatory, used for Ron's own purposes of self-justification for his inflated claim. I don't like the way he then suggests that this kind of thing is not an isolated incident with Leonard, even implying that it's some sort of [albeit loose] pattern, on top of it all. Very insulting stuff here.

I hope Ron will take the initiative to accept Leonard's gesture. It's absurd for him to be responding like this when queried. There are obviously some hurt feelings, but it seems, and I believe, they're in excess of the precipitating situation. I, too, wish he'd contacted him personally. This needs to be resolved man to man, even 30 years later.

Love,
Elizabeth

[Young dr. Freud]

It's absurd for him to be responding like this when queried.

What's so absurd about it? Why shouldn't RC answer a question honestly. Why should he gloss over the past.

And once again Leonard has NO idea of what was going on in his own business affairs? Ron C. walks away from their friendship and Leonard doesn't know why? Or doesn't ask. Or doesn't care.

I'm not buying this one.

YdF

[lizzytysh]

To properly frame your perspective [as predictable as mine, but at the opposite end of the continuum], however, you'll 'buy' pretty much anything that's anti-Leonard. Who knows how they may have lost touch. There's a natural attrition that occurs in life, among those with whom we develop relationships. That's how that adage came about that if, at the end of your life, you can count all of your true friends on more than one hand, you've been extremely lucky in life. It doesn't mean you didn't have good friends along the way ~ or that you lost contact for negative reasons. People move, get different jobs [gigs], develop other relationships, focuses, whatever ~ it doesn't mean that something horribly offensive has occurred and/or that there's ill will [particularly, if someone never makes their, injured feelings known]; it just means that portions of life are passing....I'm sure you've seen that Internet thing about some people being in your life for a reason; for a season; or for a lifetime. Everyone we encounter, or even develop, good, positive relationships with are 'meant' to be in our lives forever. Wonderful if it could be so, but not enough hours, flexibility, or mobility in our lives for it to really happen ~ unless we remain where we were born, and develop the whole of our lives within a single, isolated village.

~ Lizzy

[Young dr. Freud]

To properly frame your perspective [as predictable as mine, but at the opposite end of the continuum], however, you'll 'buy' pretty much anything that's anti-Leonard.

No... I just don't believe Leonard is gosh almighty.

YdF

P.S. And the song "Dear Heather" is about as dumb as it gets.

[lizzytysh]

See? There ya' go ~ a difference of opinion, already . I find "Dear Heather" a very clever, musical piece.

I believe in a very basic principle of 'good faith' with Leonard. I've seen credits given and appreciations expressed, and have no reason to believe that he would, intentionally or otherwise, oversight someone who is due them.

[Young dr. Freud]

Ron C. was Leonard's band leader for 6 world tours. He played on four of Leonard's albums. They were friends for years. And Leonard didn't know Ron was going to take him to court? Lizzy, take off the rose-colored glasses and face the world.


YdF

[lizzytysh]

You've corroborated Ron's story, YdF?

There seemed to be a fair share of red wine flowing in those days. Likely, marijuana clouds hovering, as well. Many have awoken thinking, "Man, that was profound!" Written something, thinking the same. Until they read it. One's level of input into an already-existing song, written by someone known to put a huge amount of thought and effort into them, could easily be misconstrued under the influences and cancellation of a court pursuit considered a wise idea. I wasn't there [duh ~ really ? ], and I'll accept and believe Leonard's explanation of events. You're obviously taking Ron's version. So ~ Mmmm...what else is new, YdF?

[Young dr. Freud]

You've corroborated Len's story, Lizzy?

About the drugs... maybe it's Leonard who might not be remembering things correctly.


YdF

[lizzytysh]

No ~ I've not corroborated Leonard's story. I'm believing it. I have more to base my faith on than if I were to choose to believe Ron's.

With remembering things correctly, drugs or alcohol included, I go with the memory of the one who had the song already written, and can tell you 30 years later what was already in place, prior to the tweaking. Remember, this is someone who notoriously labours over his work. That process, alone, can implant certain aspects of it. A rewrite-collaboration beggars belief with me. A suggestion does not constitute collaboration. And, resorting to suggesting that what Leonard already had in place was "dumb" ~ well, I feel confident in doubting that, all the way to the door. It also undermines Ron's credibility in this.

~ Lizzy