Hi Tchoc ~
You've slung some very, very heavy stuff out there regarding both Tom and Jurica. Still, you feel you have no need to apologize. Then, you 'correct' me, suggesting I have nothing that warrants saying regarding what you did here, when my act was to write something positive regarding Tom, after the [following, here] onslaught. In fact, I felt you had far exceeded the limits; yet, I had said little regarding that. When I spoke on Tom's behalf, it was still simply speaking on Tom's behalf, not ridiculing you for all you had said. Perhaps, what follows is or measures up to
your idea of a "Portrait Of A Good Man," but it sure isn't or doesn't mine.
What amazes me is that after you've said all of these things and had your initiating premise proved false [even though one of your final comments here causes me to wonder what your own, real conclusion is], you still feel no need to apologize. That's your choice, but for you to respond as you have, to me, here [when I chose to say some positive things about Tom, and I include Jurica, now] is mind-boggling.
What you said about/to Tom [italics mine for emphasis]:
~ "my information was used to put what I think is some false information. I felt abused . . . Any
lies are and an abuse" ~ implication that Tom may be a liar....feeling 'abused' before finding out the facts.
~ Jurica PLEASE was
without any regard for people, so I understand very well that some people could been hurt and react to it by delinquency. It was
as rude and selfish as a slap in the face, because one would have stand in the sunshine of another. The idea was good, though, but it could have been bring in a respectful manner, not in
this arrogant tone.
Jurica is Jurica he is like this, rough, as far as I have read his stuff, here.
But you back him without a shadow of concern for people's feelings. ~ your final comment, alongside all that preceded it, is like saying Tom is an accomplice, which in criminal court, makes you as 'guilty' as the perpetrator.
~ "If
your site and popularity are more important than Leonard Cohen works, and people" ~ a pretty low blow to someone committed to Leonard's works, and to Leonard for being Leonard.
~ "
you who has the answer for everything in regard of Leonard" ~ a dig
~ "Or are you afraid to answer me?" ~ another implication of 'guilt,' as well as cowardice
~ "I find the false information you put on wikipédia far mor offensensive for Leonard (and Jarkko)," ~ concluding that it
is false information, and that Tom exercises no regard for either Leonard or Jarkko.
~ "because official websites are considered more serious, and often the only reliable source of information, because there is a lot of false informations out there" ~ not only does this suggest that Tom
may be posting
false information, but for me, I have an issue, as Jarkko's site is
far more
serious regarding Leonard, with
lots more up-to-date [
and accurate] information regarding Leonard.
~ "Please, people do not disturb the order of the net by adding false information where should stand only objective and real ones. I don't have time to loose so don't have the readers of wikipedia." ~ what a 'warning,' and directed to whom[?], as though they 'clearly need' it?
~ "Now, I am more shocked about the
lack of respect it is in my regard, to use a friendly info to put
false info on the net, (if it is false) and in regard of Leonard Cohen - to put false info on a page about him on the net (if it is false) - and even to Jarkko which never claimed he maintains an official site, despite the fact that it is the most important." ~ I have to give you credit for having inserted from time to time, "if it is false," or words to that effect, but your overriding implications are that it
is false, and that Tom
is being abusive ~ of you, Leonard, Jarkko, and all of the Internet, who might enter wikipedia or his Croatian site.
~ "I just have
a complete new opinion about Jurica and Tom - because they are
harming themselves and their site by their own behavior. How
reliable information on such a site
could be? I wonder and audience will wonder also." ~ Conclusion formed; opinion changed. Charges of unreliability heavily hanging in the air. In fact, they are not harming themselves; but you were trying to.
~ "one must be all
virtuous IN THE BEGINNING." ~ charges of lack of virtuosity
~ "Nor that if you want to join the lads in the lie (if it is) because they are friends of Jarkko." ~ an insult to them and me, and as if we have no powers of discernment or assessment unto ourselves, and are 'nepotistic' in our thinking.
~ "I even don't have the honour of an answer. This is real
class." ~ new charges of lack of class, just because a response hasn't arrived on your own, time schedule.
~ "this to say, Bee, that I know your style, I like to feed a thread with controversy. Shock of ideas is a good way to make the light come out of shadows!
" ~ an interesting 'disclaimer' regarding yourself, amidst all these heavy [if you want to talk about heavy!] accusations, which at the same time, 'excuses' the 'style' of another, whilst attacking Jurica's.
~ "Serious
reliable [italics yours, in this case] people
are not suppose to spread false information on the net." ~ why are these presumptions of falsity continuing to surface.
~ "They can. But out is the
serious and the
reliable. The
trust also." ~ now Tom is not only 'unserious' and 'unreliable,' but 'untrustworthy'?
~ "What will be the next step? It does not look very good." ~ though phrased in an atmosphere of uncertainty, you're already building on a false premise, as though it were true.
~ "I hope Leonard Cohen could have
trustable people around him. Not
ones who profit of his kindness to do any sorts of things..." ~ one erroneous and offensive conclusion after another. And 'profit'? How is that? Financially? Or, were you suggesting they 'use' Leonard for their own purposes? Still, you suggest that they are not to be trusted, an attack on both their motives, character, and integrity. It doesn't
matter which it was, as all implications are patently false.
~ "In a forum, it is not so important to do
foolish things, but on a site....In my eyes a site should be very
trustable." ~ for someone who commands that I not suggest/imply things, this has really gone off the charts by this point, and long before, in
fact.
~ "For Tom being good mannered... well, i wonder if he could be more easily influenced than I am. I wonder. Actions speak louder than words. Wait and see." ~ you are "wait and see"ing, yet still question Tom's good manners and his ability to refrain from being influenced.
~ "and the
serial of contradictory posts of Tom, btw." ~ I don't see them as contradictory, at all. Again, this is a suggestion that he is not being honest and forthright regarding your accusations.
~ "I'm
not embarass at all.
Even in the case my assumption
would have been proved wrong. ~ this loses me, as it appears that you're saying your assumptions
were correct. It may just be your wording.
~ This "file" is closed for me and
I don't expect any kind of
kind attitude from the part of those two who showed me for a while now how they don't really care about people. Bee,
you could be a "
player of the game", but
you care for people." ~ This is the quote I was looking for. Not only do you, again, slam Tom and Jurica, as not caring for people, but you compare them [negatively!] to someone else here, who admittedly has no qualms about regularly slinging insults and derogatory insinuations about people, and admits to its being all a joke and a game, as she shares your
own desire for 'excitement' [for lack of a better word, at the moment].
~ "I think that if it was T&J's forum, I would have been deleted for not being docile enough. I don't know for sure but this
is what I
think." ~ another negative slam regarding what you think of Tom & Jurica.
~ "All the rest is litterature. And
I don't feel the need to apologize.
I have not problem to apologize when I feel I have to do it."
*************************************************************
What you said about/to Jurica:
~ "Jurica PLEASE was
without any regard for people, so I understand very well that some people could been hurt and react to it by delinquency. It was
as rude and selfish as a slap in the face, because one would have stand in the sunshine of another. The idea was good, though, but it could have been bring in a respectful manner, not in
this arrogant tone.
Jurica is Jurica he is like this, rough, as far as I have read his stuff, here. But you back him without a shadow of concern for people's feelings."
~ "Jurica, it is not that I don't like you, it is that
your evident lack of
any sense of humour, and
your judgmental attitude toward people that you seem to have in so low estime in your posts,
they are all stupid, stupid cow, ignorant, not able to vote, etc. etc. etc. name it, that I feel helpless to communicate with you in a satisfaying manner.
All I expect from you is insults and disrespect." ~ more 'lovely' things to say to and about a person.
~ "Nor that if you want to join the lads in the lie (if it is) because they are friends of Jarkko." ~ an insult to them and me, and as if we have no powers of discernment or assessment unto ourselves, and are 'nepotistic' in our thinking.
~ "I hope Leonard Cohen could have
trustable people around him. Not
ones who profit of his kindness to do any sorts of things..." ~ one erroneous and offensive conclusion after another. And 'profit'? How is that? Financially? Or, were you suggesting they 'use' Leonard for their own purposes? Still, you suggest that they are not to be trusted, an attack on both their motives, character, and integrity. It doesn't
matter which it was, as all implications are patently false.
~ "This "file" is closed for me and
I don't expect any kind of
kind attitude from the part of those two who showed me for a while now how they don't really care about people. Bee,
you could be a "
player of the game", but
you care for people." ~ This is the quote I was looking for. Not only do you, again, slam Tom and Jurica, as not caring for people, but you compare them [negatively!] to someone else here, who has no qualms about regularly slinging insults and derogatory insinuations about people, and admits to its being all a joke and a game, as she shares your
own desire for 'excitement' [for lack of a better word, at the moment].
~ "I think that if it was T&J's forum, I would have been deleted for not being docile enough. I don't know for sure but this
is what I
think." ~ another negative conclusion/slam regarding what you think of Tom & Jurica.
I consider Jurica a friend, as well, and disagree with your comments and implications about him.
*********************************************************
I miss the regular input of both of these fine people.
Respectfully,
Elizabeth
Well, my dear, it is not because I would not understand a problem that I think there is no problem. If you want go and do your own search about all this. For me, for now. I'm fed up. To now on, I don't help anybody unless I'm sure it won't put me in a situation I would not appreciate. Also LC has people to take care of his business. (hum). 
I would have say this is in a month, but maybe this year, you are here 'cause you want my list of giff for Xmas? 
], I'll copy-and-paste this to there, and then delete it here. It's where you comment to Bee to the effect of her actually caring for people, whereas [at least suggesting/implying that] Tom does not.
], I'll post this now, and return to Tom and Jurica, later.