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Andrew McGeever · Post by **Andrew McGeever** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:26 pm

Dear Margaret,
Despite their different backgrounds, "serious literature and poetry" is a tag which is wearing more heavily on Bob Dylan.
Margaret Atwood (Canada) and Bob Dylan (U.S.A.) are, unofficially of course, joint favourites for the Nobel prize for literature this year.
If he gets it, would he accept it? He's turned down many invitations before.
Andrew.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:30 pm

Hi Andrew ~

Why don't you join us in the "Joan Baez" thread in the "Other Music" section. We're having some pretty pointed discussion on Bob, as well as Bob vs. Joan. I'm interested in your perspectives.

~ Lizzy

margaret · Post by **margaret** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:00 am

Dear Andrew,

Who knows how the minds of those people who decide on the Nobel prizewinner work

Some past winners have been pretty obscure, and it's possible that sometimes politics has an influence. I think Dylan sees himself more as an entertainer than literary figure, but at this stage in his life he may well feel flattered and accept graciously if the prize were offered.

There is no denying his genius as a songwriter in my humble opinion!

I have to admit to not following discussion on literature prizes very closely due to lack of reading time. Too many other things to do over the last year or so has prevented me even reading a newspaper except at weekends, and then not every weekend

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:40 am

I only saw Part 2 and there were a few gems in it. My most memorable moments were of Dylan rebelling against 'fame' ....
...the one where he comes out of the plane with a camera taking pictures of all the journalists who were there to take pictures of him was priceless.
Another one was where someone asks him to suck the corner of his glasses (guess he wanted a pic of Dylan in a thoughtful pose) and Dylan is at first confused and then point-blank refuses saying.."No you suck my glasses."
Another silly question a journalist asked "How many protest singer-songwriters are there in US?" (or words to that effect) and he replies thoughtfully "There are 136 singer-songwriters....no, make that 142".
Finally, to the young autograph-hunter "You don't need my autograph, if you needed it I'd give it to you."

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:09 am

"There are 136 singer-songwriters....no, make that 142".

Yes ~ that was very funny; especially, with the journalist at first taking him seriously, and even when he changed it to 142, still appearing to not be quite sure.

Joe Way · Post by **Joe Way** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:55 am

Another silly question a journalist asked "How many protest singer-songwriters are there in US?" (or words to that effect) and he replies thoughtfully "There are 136 singer-songwriters....no, make that 142".
Finally, to the young autograph-hunter "You don't need my autograph, if you needed it I'd give it to you."

Did anyone else think of the footage in "Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. Leonard Cohen" with the interviewer and Irving Layton when Steve Allen was interviewing Dylan? Before I saw Steve Allen, I thought it was the same guy from the CBC who had interviewed Layton and Cohen. It was more the tone of his voice rather than the questions.

Joe

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:52 am

Sad to say. As a Canadian, I want all the success in the world for Margaret Atwood. More for her past work than her latest. Alias Grace, as an exception.

Personally, I think 'poetry' is a tough nut to crack. I hope anyone, who is called a 'musician', can do it. Can make 'them' see, that lyrics are poetical.

All areas of art have lost as there is often a 'distinction' between what is, and what isn't 'art'.

I always want 'success' for Leonard. Whatever that may mean to him.

Linda.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:53 am

Yes. Canadians have funny tones in their voices. Tres gauche

Linda.

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:51 am

I'd agree witth Linda about Atwood, although I'm not a Canadian. As for Bob Dylan, I said previously in that Nobel topic, I don't think he has enough literary background to receive the Nobel Prize. He needs some body of work, otherwise this award would seem ridiculous regarding not only LC, but many others poets and writers. But this award is ridiculous anyway; I think we solved that also

Would there be LC without Dylan? I agree with Margaret, it would be the same, more or less. LC did say in one of his interviews that Dylan's success was only the sign he can try also; and that he felt he was Dylan before Dylan, he sung on guitar already in highschool at parties, always carrying the guitar around, etc. "I was know in Montreal", he said (more or less), for this thing Dylan is doing now. Maybe Leonard's luck was to meet John Hammond, because I have impression that Hammond was impressed by Leonard in that Chelse Hotel room more than he ever was when he drafted Dylan or Springsteen. You could clearly hear that in 1986 interview Lizzytysh transcribed for the Files.

Joe - yes, I remember this Bob Johnston affair was mentioned in some of the book. Dylan actually was pissed of because he felt Johnston betrayed him... And even worse: it wasn't that he produced Leonard's second or third record when Dylan wanted Johnston in the studio again, but Johnston actually wasn't available because he went out to tour thru Europe with Leonard as band leader, guitar and organ player! And I don't think Johnston ever played on Dylan's tours...

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:55 am

Anyway, as we didn't see Scorsese's movie in this part of Europe yet, I read some criticism in yesterday's weekly magazine (Dylan's in every single newspaper here these days!): criticism was that movie is (beside being magnificent piece of work) actually censored. There's no talk about drugs, alcohol and similar things. But the critic who saw the preview by Croatia distributor says you can clearly see that Dylan and Johnny Cash are totally stoned while they sing "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" (if I'm right?), and there's another moment, I forget which, when Dylan is obviously taken heavy by drugs, what everyone watching the movie can see, but the movie itself avoid to mention any kind of such activities.

Joe Way · Post by **Joe Way** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:11 pm

Hi Tom,

Yes, Bob Johnston was in the band that played here in Madison (along with Charlie Daniels)-he was part of the group that did "Live Songs."

When you see the Dylan movie, Johnston had some very perceptive comments about Dylan, but I agree he left Dylan to work with Cohen and that says a lot.

The movie highlighted how big a deal it was that Columbia signed Dylan. They were mass market. All of the other folk singers were signed on small labels like Vanguard. This was part of my point about Leonard-he went right to a major label. Obviously, Leonard with a degree in literature from McGill had a more formalized background than Dylan. But I think that it was musically that each has triumphed. There is a complexity to the musical stylings of both that is evident at an early stage in their careers. Neither was simply setting poems to music.

Joe

Byron · Post by **Byron** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:39 am

Just watched a tribute concert from The Barbican, London. KTT was very good, as were Liam Clancy, Odetta, et al. A certain Liverpool Ken may have been in the audience. Margaret thought she spotted him.

BBC4 is doing a great job this week!

Dylanesque4 · Post by **Dylanesque4** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:04 am

Andrew,

When you said:

"Margaret Atwood (Canada) and Bob Dylan (U.S.A.) are, unofficially of course, joint favourites for the Nobel prize for literature this year."

was that just personal opinion or have you seen/read actual quasi-official rumors regarding it?

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:44 am

They're every years in last circle, according to many newspapers. As is Milan Kundera and John Updike and quite few other writers.

Shane · Post by **Shane** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:58 am

I just want to say I finally bought the soundtrack yesterday and it's all I've been listening to ever since I got home. I love it. I haven't seen the film yet.