Sadness and Joy in the News

[lizzytysh]

Here comes Tropical Storm Rita, with two opportunities for strengthening ~ the straits between the Florida Keys and Cuba; and the Gulf of Mexico. New Orleans remains in danger, with the possibilities for heavy rain [or being in her path], which still threatens the compromised levees. Perhaps, Federal response will be more effective for evacuation [as some are returning home, for daytime hours only] and aid, should this all escalate.

[lizzytysh]

Hurricane Rita is already a Category 3 storm now, and is expected to increase. Its path at this point is Texas [possibly, northern Mexico or western Louisiana].

If these hurricanes were/are to be interpreted as a 'message from G~d, I feel this message would be, "The United States government needs to stay at home and take care of its own people."

[tom.d.stiller]

If these hurricanes were/are to be interpreted as a 'message from G~d, I feel this message would be, "The United States government needs to stay at home and take care of its own people."

We shouldn't interpret natural events that way. Never ever.

Shall gods be said to thump the clouds


Shall gods be said to thump the clouds
When clouds are cursed by thunder,
Be said to weep when weather howls?
Shall rainbows be their tunics' colour?

When it is rain where are the gods?
Shall it be said they sprinkle water
From garden cans, or free the floods?

Shall it be said that, venuswise,
An old god's dugs are pressed and pricked,
The wet night scolds me like a nurse?

It shall be said that gods are stone.
Shall a dropped stone drum on the ground,
Flung gravel chime? Let the stones speak
With tongues that talk all tongues.

[lizzytysh]

Operative word ~ "If"!

Tell the Bible believers that, Tom. Or, the Native Americans. Or, a number of other cultures.

Even though I agree with you, many do not.

"Shouldn't" and "never ever" are pretty strong declaratives for the mediator position you take .

~ Lizzy

[lizzytysh]

Article entitled "New Orleans Facing More Flooding by Rita" ~ it's expected to be a Category 4 by this afternoon, but not to hit until Friday [so Category 5 also likely, unless it weakens, of course].

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... ne_katrina

Excerpt:

"The protection is very tenuous at best," said Dave Wurtzel, the Corps official responsible for repairing the 17th Street Canal levee, whose huge breach during Katrina caused the worst of the floods.

It's agreed, all round, that the levees can't hold up to another hurricane. It's weakened, and there are suspected to still be undiscovered, smaller breaches requiring repair.

Encouraging excerpt:

In anticipation of another hurricane, the Corps drove a massive metal barrier across the 17th Street Canal bed to prevent a storm surge from Lake Pontchartrain from swamping New Orleans again.

More on all counts there, but that's a little of it.

They've just upgraded Rita to a Category 4, and are saying it's the largest one, yet. It's huge ~ "another monster storm." Landfall is expected about 1:00 AM on Saturday in the Galveston area, with parts of western Louisiana included. Mandatory evacuation of Galveston has been ordered, with buses taking people out ~ including their pets ~ one of the factors for people remaining behind in New Orleans.

Right now, there's a weather "High" holding the storm away from the New Orleans area. The water temps in the Gulf are up to 88 degrees Fahrenheit, which will allow the storm's power to build, and nothing in the Gulf [i.e. land mass] to stop or slow it down. However, bordering the coast of Texas, the water cools down by about 10 degrees, which will slow it down. If the "High" moves eastward at all, the storm could/would loop eastward into the New Orleans area. The "High" moving is what allowed Katrina to go so close into New Orleans. As it stands now, however, it will go into Galveston, possibly even as far south as Brownsville, Texas.

3:30 PM ~ The winds of Rita are currently at 150 mph and the banner beneath says it may actually be a Category 5 at this point. Houston will also be threatened by this one.

[tom.d.stiller]

Operative word ~ "If"!

Indeed, Lizzy, the "If" is the operative word in your post. I won't criticize your true statement just because I believe the premise is wrong. (Indeed a conclusion drawn from a false premise is always true, that's what the logicians tell us... )

Tell the Bible believers that, Tom. Or, the Native Americans. Or, a number of other cultures.

I told virtually everybody by publicly stating it.

Even though I agree with you, many do not.

Well, the primary purpose of a post is not to find those who agree, but those who disagree, and might be ready to constructively discuss an issue. (Good to know, though, that you agree.)

"Shouldn't" and "never ever" are pretty strong declaratives for the mediator position you take .

Oh, I never took a mediator position when it came to content, or opinion, or theoretical approach, or premises. There I ever stated mine, and invited others to state theirs. My mediation, if at all, concerns itself with the forms of communication that are in use.

I believe there should be a battle of minds, but the means should be civilized. The purpose of a discussion is never to win over someone else, but to gain insight. And this can't be done by means of arguing ad hominem instead of ad rem.

On this level, and only on this level, I might try to mediate. (But you know all that from many fights we had to fight around here. )

Cheers
tom

PS: How did you like the Dylan Thomas poem?

[lizzytysh]

Hi Tom ~

Since my message is directed toward those who do believe these things, my proposed 'conclusion' is not faulty, but is to be understood in the context of the accepted premise of those who hold those beliefs. It doesn't de facto get invalidated due to "faulty premise" ~ I wasn't 'arguing' the premise, but the conclusions of those who accept the premise.

Oh, I never took a mediator position when it came to content, or opinion, or theoretical approach, or premises. There I ever stated mine, and invited others to state theirs. My mediation, if at all, concerns itself with the forms of communication that are in use.

I believe there should be a battle of minds, but the means should be civilized. The purpose of a discussion is never to win over someone else, but to gain insight. And this can't be done by means of arguing ad hominem instead of ad rem.

I'll get back to this, and your role in it, when I have more time. It was more than a little lacking; or if this term is better understood, incomplete.

I think Dylan Thomas's poem is very gritty and 'natural' in its presentation. As I read it, I envision a landscape, pre-development eras, pre-historic even. Effective way of addressing it when the issue you're addressing is "god/gods."

~ Lizzy

[lizzytysh]

For animal and mammal lovers, a heartwarming story coming out of Katrina regarding dolphins ~ a mammal I particularly love:

Dolphins reunited (2:58)
Eight dolphins that were washed out of their Mississippi aquarium during Hurricane Katrina have been rescued. CNN's Gary Tuchman reports (September 21)

• Aquarium dolphin rescue under way
• Missing dolphins spotted in sea

http://www.cnn.com/ ~ look for it under the "Special Coverage" section in the 'middle,' on the right. There's a viewing segment. They were lost in the Gulf for 13-14 days, yet hung together in two groups of 4, and despite wild dolphins hanging around, did not separate and leave with them.

[linda_lakeside]

Tell the Bible believers that, Tom. Or, the Native Americans.

Why would someone lump those that read the bible and Native Americans into one group, I wonder?

One is a group of religious people, the other is a group of ethnic people. Forgive me, but that sounds almost prejudicial.

Linda.

[lizzytysh]

Yes, I'm sure it would sound "almost prejudicial" to you, Linda ~ which you would hasten to point out . However, with the Bible, Nature is often considered to be G~d's acts, coming with a purpose. In the traditional, Native American culture, Nature 'is' their 'religion.' G~d is considered to be seen in Nature and its various forces. The G~d of the Wind, the G~d of the Rain, etc. It's really not such a stretch for discussion purposes ~ though if I were doing a master's thesis, I would become much more finite in my discussion.

Interesting, however, that you fail to point out here, the discrepancy between:

We shouldn't interpret natural events that way. Never ever.

Well, the primary purpose of a post is not to find those who agree, but those who disagree, and might be ready to constructively discuss an issue. (Good to know, though, that you agree.)

and

And 'to each their own vision', I could not agree more. Why, I wonder, do these pearls of wisdom not drop more frequently and fairly from your posts?

Linda.

That 'pulling up the rear' thing [the term actually intended as a positive action for the purpose of keeping things together in a good way] that you seem quite committed to with me ~ i.e.

I would hardly consider this a 'stalking' mission, you yourself have been in the 'pulling up the rear' position yourself.

and

What you chose ~ instead ~ to go for.

Where's your 'to each their own vision' reminder now ~ that 'pearl of wisdom' that you feel should 'drop more frequently and fairly from [all?] posts'?

Are you aware of your transparency?

~ Lizzy

[linda_lakeside]

Boy, did you ever have to do a lot of back-tracking on that one. I'm sure no present day Aboriginals or Religious people were offended.

[lizzytysh]

I guess to some it might be considered "a lot of back-tracking," but with such a fresh reminder, I knew exactly where to go. Well, you'll have to speak regarding the Aboriginals ~ I wouldn't be able to be quite as succinct on their traditional, belief systems.

Great of you to rally on behalf of the "present day Aboriginals or Religious people" [by the way, not all "Religious people" subscribe to the Bible], lest they be offended ~ although, even there, you are shifting your focus from your original issue of "Why would someone lump those that read the bible and Native Americans into one group." Reading is also not necessarily believing.

~ Lizzytysh

[lizzytysh]

Hurricane Rita is measuring 300 miles wide right now. That means at least Tropical Storm winds extending that far out. If the storm remains its present size [or becomes larger], it will encompass the entire, Texas coast, and a portion of western Louisiana's. It'll also move inland at still-hurricane status.

From a FOXNews article:

The federal government was eager to show it, too, had learned its lesson, after getting pounded for its sluggish response to Katrina. It rushed hundreds of truckloads of water, ice and ready-made meals to the Gulf Coast and put rescue and medical teams on standby.

The good thing is that they have taken a lesson from Katrina and the area is under mandatory evacuation right now, and are moving those who are unable to do so themselves. Some are criticizing the government on this level of preparation, saying it's for political purposes/positioning. I don't care what the motives are when they're saving lives. That can work itself out later.

[Emmy]

Why do people come here to give weather reports? I usually just go to http://www.weather.com. Was just wondering...TIA! me, em

[lizzytysh]

Hi Emmy ~

Some of the reasons are included in the title of the thread. I guess this could be a thread you might want to ignore. It's probably similar reasons for the Iraq war, and what's happening there, still being discussed in another section and thread. Thanks for the link. I haven't used that one in a long time.

~ Lizzy