Explosions in London

[lizzytysh]

One of the reasons that flagrant raping occurs in the midst of war, perpetrated by soldiers, is that the line is very blurred between the act of rape, and the act of warring, with the exertion of power for the goal of domination and control. They originate from the same place in the psyche. Yes, the desire to humiliate is another of the dynamics.

[linda_lakeside]

Hi Tri-me,

I think we're all disgusted about Karla Homolka, fortunately, the numbers of women offenders are far fewer than that of men, but sexual abuse is not exclusively a man's domain, as that Homolka woman so effectively pointed out.

Linda.

[Young dr. Freud]

Choco,

You chose not to define "abusive". And why? Because your argument would fall apart.

I repeat...your original proposition is invalid and all your mumbo-jumbo moral hypothesizing is not going to change that.

To dress provocatively in inappropriate situations is NOT as abusive as RAPE. And never will be.


Ydf

P.S. Your little example of the nudist in the midst of people dressed for success is silly and has nothing to do with your argument that scanty dress is as ABUSIVE as RAPE.

[Tchocolatl]

? what happened?

[Tchocolatl]

Yes YdF, good remark! My "silly" example has indeed little to do with my first idea, but it was an interesting twisting in the focus, a change of angle to see the same problem otherwise, an example to show how this fashion is making victims in both sides, but the side that I began with was not the worst. Well observed, kid.

Besides, I keep saying that unwanted sex is abusive. Therefore, to be dres sexy in an appropriate place is as abusive as a rape though, I hope I do not need to put it in bold in order for you to understand, it is not a violent act. I think it is not as violent but as abusive.

Now you don't share this opinion. Good. No problem. No problem at all. You have your opinions, I have mine. Let be zen again. Dont, get me wrong, I don't expect anything like that from you , but, ey! maybe you could try to make a change.

A young woman wearing extra sexy revealing clothes needs to know that they are sending out a signal that they are interested in sex, why else would yuo wear a peek a boo dress? This does not mean beat me and rape me.

That's it.

"I want sex", does not mean "I want violence". Does not mean "I want to be injured and killed".

Wanting sex is not a crime.

(Well I hope it is still not a crime for women, and therefore : "she "deserve" to be raped, to be "punished"" - because it is a very common scenario in American movies :a woman who wants/likes sex is often also a perverse that has to die - very unsane those movies as nature is so otherwise. Women like just sex like men).

To rape people is a crime.

However, I insist, is it necessary to wear clothes that say "I want sex" in school and in workplaces? I really don't care anywere else. But there, I find it asocial and abusive. Sex is not bad, as well as eating, going to the toilet (sorry if I am shocking someone) and any natural need and way of life, but do we have to do it any time any place?

No answer is needed.

I don't care what your culture or background no man or woman deserves or enjoys being raped. Even small childeren who are victims of pedifiles know that what is happening is wrong. Rapists are equal to murders in my mind because the victim is a victim and suffers for the rest of their lives from it.

Ah! I could have quote this in red.

What disgusts everybody in the case of KH, I think, is the fact that she did not have been judged and sentenced fairly. Justice is not make in her case.

Everybody knows that police made a deal with her in order to catch Bernardo and furthermore they would not have to do it if they had done their job properly. They scraped the whole business, those....

As for her, she is a serial killer. I think that she is mentally ill, that she is dangerous. I think that she is still fragile and very sick. If I have teenagers I would be very afraid to know that she is living in NDG (next door) now. Many people here think that she is only just another poor victim of Bernado because they are not aware of what happened, it was not as mediated then it was in Ontario.

So this is even more scary to me.

But I am not disgussed about sick people like her, as far as a disease is not too disgusting. This was is hurk... heavy, indeed. I try to have compassion for sick people, the more I can. But I just want that sick AND dangerous people like her would be treated as so and not like an innofensive person, this in order to let the society live in peace.

Many people say that she is less dangerous than many organized criminals. I don't know. This is a heavy subject. I need a breath of fresh air and also to finish my things. I'll come back when I can.

I wish I could finish with so light subject. But I can't find one now.

[Tri-me]

It concerns me that we are sending troops to Afghanistan. I wish them well and safety. The threat of a terrorist attack in Canada is very possible, apparently we are on the list. I don't think it is OK to live in fear and create hysteria. This means that the terrorists have won.
I often feel that maybe we (Canadians) live in an enlightened society but we just don't see it. There are still things that go on here like KH, but for the most part we are safe and very wealthy. I spent a week in the hopital last September, had X-rays, a cat scan, lots of morphine, a semi-private room and was never sent a bill, not even made to feel that I should pay. I wish that everyone in the world could live as freely and easily as we do here in Canada. I feel it is very important that we practice compassion, even for those who do things that are immoral to us. I know I might sound like a bleeding heart, left wing, fairy dust queen but this is the only way I see things turning around. Creating and perpetuating hate is what causes the problems. Creating and perpetuating compassion can at least make the individual happy. We who have the luxury of time and money which enable us to send messages on our computers are very fortunate.
Bugs and Fishes Diane

[Young dr. Freud]

Choco,

You are equating the two when you say dressing inappropriately and provacatively is AS abusive as Rape. The fact that you tack on the words "without the violence" is nonsensical. Rape is a violent crime. Scanty dress is not a violent crime. Your comparison doesn't work on even the most basic level.

YdF

[Tchocolatl]

YdF, Hat off to your tenacity. But just to your tenacity.

I told you what I think, you told me what you think about this, now what? It is evident that we do not have the same opinion about a subject. It is wonderful. Life would be so dull if everybody would be the same. So why don't we pass to another subject now. OK?

Tri-me, what I do not understand is that Bernardo is much more freaky than her ex-wife is, but because she is a rarity : a female serial killer the mob is after her like a crazy fury out of sheer hatred. Talking about equality in society....

To recognize our feelings, including fear is the safest way to avoid hysteria, panic, and projections of all sorts, don't you think so? Althoug I agree that to talk ONLY about that is like a... you know... a kind of brain wash



"bleeding heart, left wing, fairy dust queen" those are among my favourite creatures

[linda_lakeside]

Tri-me,

It concerns me when Canada sends troops anywhere (we know what happened the last time we were in Afghanistan), but I believe this is the price Ottawa feels it must pay for getting our beef across the border, the soft-wood lumber tariffs, etc. South Korea sent troops for similar reasons, I think (of course, their dilemma is of a more direct political nature).

We are fortunate in that our medical system is still basically intact, but, I think that's going to change as well. There have been some sweeping changes here in BC, and I don't think it will be long before the Feds, start with more 'cutbacks'. We are indeed lucky to be living in such a great country, but with the times as they are, I think there is much more 'sacrifice' to come.

Also, the release of KH is stunning even though we've known for some time that it was coming. It's very hard to keep both eyes on these politicians of ours, as they give with one hand, while taking with another. Par for the course in politics.

Linda.

[annaedith]

i absolutely agree with thocho and tri-me.
our world needs "bleeding heart, left wing, fairy dust queen" and all those other creatures like saints, good witches, magicians with powerful words... to fight the trolls and poison-spreading dragons that can't behave in community!
and here in this forum i believe i found some of those good creatures who always fight for life, love and truth. go on like this, the world needs just people like you!!!

[jurica]

i'm sad to hear Canada has to send troops to Afghanistan because on account of financial blackmail... and i hope your goverment will know better than most of the others and cutback on something else rather than health insurance.
how about rising the taxes on expensive cars, cigars, cloth... and similar symbols of supremacy? oh, sorry, i forgot that politicians are always the rich ones, so in their interest is always to cutback on health insurance and other poor man's crutchs.

regarding clothes and the message - i think it's farely obvious that most people dress in the way that they want to say something to the people who see them. look around you in the street, and tell me how many people are dressed in 'punk', 'heavy metal', 'i'm-rich-and-successful' or any other style? how many have something written on their T-shirts? something as stupid as: 'This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators- belive in yourself' or 'you can look, but don't touch'? NOW - how many are dressed in orderly fashion, giving no regard to how they look and what will other people think about them for it?

i'm not saying this in any way justifies rape.

but saying 'always go with the victim's side' is also wrong. i'd say - don't take sides. rather analyze the reasons.

if you did something very stupid and dangerous as a kid, your mother may have hit you to learn better. then you were the victim to violence, but i'd still not judge your mother. now, i don't think it is very stupid and dangerous to walk around dressed in sexy clothes, but sometimes and in some places, or with some people it is.

you don't let your teenage daughter out around midnight all alone and dressed like a hooker, do you?

[Tri-me]

you don't let your teenage daughter out around midnight all alone and dressed like a hooker, do you?

NO, the point i that a normal human being would not rape a woman who is dressed this way. A rapist does not care what a woman, girl, bot, man looks like. The clothes are not the problem. Dressing this way will stimulate attention. It will affect the way people percieve you.

CLOTHES DO NOT CAUSE RAPE. Abuse and mental illness does. I want prisioners to be rehabilitated, they need it.

How's your garden growing

[lizzytysh]

Reminder:

There are men who are turned off by flagrantly revealing dress. "No room left for the imagination" ~ "She looks cheap" ~ "I wouldn't want to be seen with her" ~ on and on.

[Ali]

Attributed to either King Arthur or Alfred the Great's reign was a saying that reflected a 'Utopian Society' "a 15 year old virgin should be able to walk the bredth of the country naked with a purse of gold in each hand and no man would offer her insult." The world would be a better place if each and every one of us practiced tolerance.[/quote]

[Tri-me]

a 15 year old virgin should be able to walk the bredth of the country naked with a purse of gold in each hand and no man would offer her insult." The world would be a better place if each and every one of us practiced tolerance

Did I not say that a few pages back Thanks for that Ali I will hold on to that quote, said so long ago and we are not there yet. I love that quote.

FYI it is legal for a woman in Canada to walk down the street topless.