Tom Waits on Leonard Cohen

[linda_lakeside]

Hello,

I'm sure I'll be bounced out of this forum for saying this, but it was only recently that I was made aware of Cave's existence. Wait. No. That was Drake. Do you think ... never mind... Who is who notwithstanding, is Nick Cave really all that noteworthy. I've read that the Bad Seeds are the ones to thank. But what do I know... ... or was that 'Drake'.?

Btw, Tom, I am really glad you and Laurie brought up Wovenhand a while ago. They are great!! Heavy rotation right now - between Blush an Woven Hand. That's about it. - and a little LC, of course.

Linda.

[tomsakic]

Long ago, the trinity was: Dylan, Cohen, Young
Today it is: Cohen, Cave, Waits (plus late "American" Johnny Cash )

says who???

the late Johnny Cash can't get near MY top50, and Cave is somewhere down there as well (i'd say somewhere between 40 and 50). come on, you can LIKE Cave, but he doesn't realy play in the same league, when it comes to poetry, does he?

He does. He's much better than Waits in most moment, and actually, after Cohen & Dylan & Patti Smith is one of rarest with actual poetry in his lyrics.

You cannot level your opinion to general degree, I mean, you mentioned Phil Ochs who has total lack of any relevance today. I only say that when I first time heard of Cohen, I got him in package of "greatest rock poets", and there was Dylan, Cohen, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell. Later, I discovered that most of younger traders, collectors and fans prefer Cave, Cohen, Waits, and some of them Dylan. And Johnny Cash of American years was here also. And this opinions are spreaded thru most of today's musical & americana magazines. I personally have - as many others - Cash's American records in ten most favourites.

[tomsakic]

Linda, Bad Seds are great band, but they aren't the one to thank, because Nick Cave's (not Drake!) solo stuff is even better. On recent records like Boatman's Call and No More Shall We Part he became kind of crooner very close to Leonard's style.
I like his lyrics, the way in which he so easily combines good line in excellent rhymed verses.

The boatman calls from the lake
A lone loon dives upon the water
I put my hand over her
Down in the lime tree arbour

The wind in the trees is whispering
Whispering low that I love her
She puts her hand over mine
Down in the lime tree arbour

Through every breath that I breathe
And every place I go
There is hand that protects me
And I do love her so

There will always be suffering
It flows through life like water
I put my hand over hers
Down in the lime tree arbour

The boatman he has gone
And the loons have flown for cover
She puts her hand over mine
Down in the lime tree arbour

Through every word that I speak
And every thing I know
There is hand that protects me
And I do love her so

I found her on a night of fire and noise
Wild bells rang in a wild sky
I knew from that moment on
I'll love her till the day that I died
And I kissed away a thousand tears
My lady of the Various Sorrows
Some begged, some borowed, some stolen
Some kept safe for tomorrow
On and endless night, silver star spangled
The bells from the chapel went jingle-jangle

Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Like I love you?

She was given to me to put things right
And I stacked all my accomplishments beside her
Still I seemed so obselete and small
I found God and all His devils inside her
In my bed she cast the blizzard out
A mock sun blazed upon her head
So completely filled with light she was
Her shadow fanged and hairy and mad
Our love-lines grew hopelessly tangled
And the bells from the chapel went jingle-jangle

Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Like I love you?

She had a heartful of love and devotion
She had a mindful of tyranny and terror
Well, I try, I do, I really try
But I just err, baby, I do, I error
So come find me, my darling one
I'm down to the grounds, the very dregs
Ah, here she comes, blocking the sun
Blood running down the inside of her legs
The moon in the sky is battered and mangled
bAnd the bells from the chapel go jingle-jangle

Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Like I love you?

All things move toward their end
I knew before I met her that I would lose her
I swear I made every effort to be good to her
I made every effort not to abuse her
Crazy bracelets on her wrists and her ankles
And the bells from the chapel go jingle-jangle

Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Do you love me?
Do you love me? Like I love you?

Past the ivy-covered windows of The Angel
Down Athenaeum Lane to the cathedral
Trough the churchyard I wandered
Sat for a spell there and I pondered
My back to the gates of the garden
My back to the gates of the garden
My back to the gates of the garden

Fugitive fathers, sickly infants, decent mothers
Runaways and suicidal lovers
Assorted boxes of ordinary bones
Of aborted plans and sudden shattered hopes
In unlucky rows, up to the gates of the garden
In unhappy rows, up to the gates of the garden
In unlucky rows, up to the gates of the garden

Won't you meet me at the gates
Won't you meet me at the gates
Won't you meet me at the gates
To the garden

Beneath the creeping shadow of the tower
The bell from St.Edmunds informs me of the hour
I turn to find you waiting there for me
In sunlight and I see the way that you breathe
Alive and leaning on the gates of the garden
Alive and leaning on the gates of the garden
Alive and leaning on the gates of the garden

Leave these ancient places to the angels
Let the saints attend to their keeping of the cathedrals
And leave the dead beneath the ground so cold
For God is in this hand that I hold
As we open up the gates of the garden

Won't you meet me at the gates
Won't you meet me at the gates
Won't you meet me at the gates
To the garden

I left by the back door
With my wife's lover's smoking gun
I don't know what I was hoping for
I hit the road at a run
I was your lover
I was your man
There never was no other
I was your friend
Till we came along this road
Till we came along this road
Till we came along this road

I ain't sent you no letters, Ma
But I'm looking quite a trip
The world spinning beneath me, Ma
Guns blazing at my hip
You were my lover
You were my friend
There never was no other
On whom I could depend
Then we came along this road
We came along this road
We came along this road

Down the road I look and there runs Mary
Hair of gold and lips like cherries
We go down to the river where the willows weep
Take a naked root for a lovers seat
That rose out of the bitten soil
But sound to the ground by creeping ivy coils
O Mary you have seduced my soul
And I don't know right from wrong
Forever a hostage of your child's world

And then I ran my tin-cup heart along
The prison of her ribs
And with a toss of her curls
That little girl goes wading in
Rollin her dress up past her knee
Turning these waters into wine
Then she platted all the willow vines

Mary in the shallows laughing
Over where the carp dart
Spooked by the new shadows that she cast
Across these sad waters and across my heart

Come sail your ships around me
And burn your bridges down
We make a little history, baby
Every time you come around

Come loose your dogs upon me
And let your hair hang down
You are a little mystery to me
Every time you come around

We talk about it all night long
We define our moral ground
But when I crawl into your arms
Everything comes tumbling down

Come sail your ships around me
And burn your bridges down
We make a little history, baby
Every time you come around

Your face has fallen sad now
For you know the time is nigh
When I must remove your wings
And you, you must try to fly

Come sail your ships around me
And burn your bridges down
We make a little history, baby
Every time you come around

Come loose your dogs upon me
And let your hair hang down
You are a little mystery to me
Every time you come around

Some of my favourites songs...

[Shane]

I am a big Tom Waits and Nick Cave fan, and I just dropped in to say hello to all you Cohen fans. I hope we'll see him on the tour!

EDIT: Good to see so many fellow Croatians here! Cheers!

[jurica]

Long ago, the trinity was: Dylan, Cohen, Young
Today it is: Cohen, Cave, Waits (plus late "American" Johnny Cash )

says who???

the late Johnny Cash can't get near MY top50, and Cave is somewhere down there as well (i'd say somewhere between 40 and 50). come on, you can LIKE Cave, but he doesn't realy play in the same league, when it comes to poetry, does he?

He does. He's much better than Waits in most moment, and actually, after Cohen & Dylan & Patti Smith is one of rarest with actual poetry in his lyrics.

You cannot level your opinion to general degree, I mean, you mentioned Phil Ochs who has total lack of any relevance today. I only say that when I first time heard of Cohen, I got him in package of "greatest rock poets", and there was Dylan, Cohen, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell. Later, I discovered that most of younger traders, collectors and fans prefer Cave, Cohen, Waits, and some of them Dylan. And Johnny Cash of American years was here also. And this opinions are spreaded thru most of today's musical & americana magazines. I personally have - as many others - Cash's American records in ten most favourites.

Tom,

just to set record straight. i did mention several times that on "my personal list" things would look the way they do. i even capitalized "MY" to make sure everybody would understand that. hell, that was what bothered me in your post in the first place - the fact that you DIDN'T say "my" trinity is...

you know very well why i reacted in the first place - you claim that Dylan is no longer as eminent as Cohen. and you claim that "most of younger traders, collectors and fans prefer Cave, Cohen, Waits, and some of them Dylan" - "some of them Dylan" come on!!! i'm not a trader, and i'm not a collector, but even i know that Dylan is the most traded of the bunch. i know that because whenever you write "Bob Dylan" into search engine hundreds of links pop up that are titled "Bob's boots" or "My Back Recordings"... the same happens if you use WinMX, DC++, torrents... you can find SOME Cohen, Cave and Waits, and SPADES of Dylan.

now, who's "leveling his opinion to general degree"?

and considering Cave's and Waits' poetry - i agree that Cave is MUCH better. i like Waits mostly for music, but also for lyrics his wife writes (the last few albums). but the fact is that i didn't place Waits in my trinity, so i don't see the point to this comparison.

i mentioned Ochs not as someone who is better than Cave, but as someone who is likely to be favored by Dylan fans as opposed to Cohen fans, which would be obvious if you quoted my whole post, and not just the part you chose.

the fact is that "greatest rock poets" can hardly be taken seriously. i mean - Neil Young. that's another guy i like a lot but a poet???


Shane,

nice to meet you. i think we (Croats) are probably the strongest "Cohen nation" in precentage of population

[kalinowt]

Leonard did seem to regard Tom Waits highly. Even wrote a poem about him in The Flame entitled "Dream Brighton". Well worth checking out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tomwaits/comme ... tom_waits/