Lizzie is correct in saying it was a song of truce in the trenches in WWII and perhaps we ought to learn from that Lizzie.
Linda you cannot read thru S&G's "Silent Night" the song is in conjunction with the background intonation of names of young men who perished in Vietnam. You have to LISTEN to their version the song in the foreground is eclipsed by the background sound track.
Leonard's version was beautiful, clean and clear.
Christmas Special: Leonard sings "Silent Night"
>>>>>What do you hear when you just listen to the song Silent Night, without having anything attached?
A Bing Crosby Christmas.
>>>>Linda you cannot read thru S&G's "Silent Night" the song is in conjunction with the background intonation of names of young men who perished in Vietnam.
This must be a different version. It is exactly as you describe but the one I am talking about is with the grim reality of 6'Oclock news (or is it 7 o clock) but it is as you describe it...background slowly eclsipses the song sung very softly. I agree that it HAS to be listened to, not just read.
A Bing Crosby Christmas.
>>>>Linda you cannot read thru S&G's "Silent Night" the song is in conjunction with the background intonation of names of young men who perished in Vietnam.
This must be a different version. It is exactly as you describe but the one I am talking about is with the grim reality of 6'Oclock news (or is it 7 o clock) but it is as you describe it...background slowly eclsipses the song sung very softly. I agree that it HAS to be listened to, not just read.
Someone played Enya singing Silent Night in Gaelic for me this Christmas and it was no Bing Crosby. Nor did it make a carol into a protest song. It was just glorious as it was meant to be. Christmas is meant to be small taste of Utopia ( that's all we ever get down here). I appreciate the S &G song but the Enya version did more to carry its true spirit even with words I couldn't understand. From a CD called A Celtic Christmas.
You are right on this one, Lightning. The words of Silent Night mean a good deal more than a "Bing Crosby Christmas". When I was a child I did not much care for it. But I now find it to be deeply moving.
As for the Christmas Truce, it happened in The Great War or, as the Americans say, World War I. At the Ypres salient on the Western Front the British and Germans did indeed have an unofficial truce for a few days.
The Germans actually had thousands of small "table-top" Christmas trees, complete with lighted candles, scattered on the parapets of their trenches. Seeing the lights from these Christmas trees made the British nervous, as they feared this was a sure sign of a coming night attack. At some of the dugouts in their trenches the Germans began to sing Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht. The British responded by singing English carols.
That is how the Christmas Truce of 1914 began. This spontaneous fraternization would not affect all 300 miles of the front, it occured mostly in the British Sector. And the duration of the truce would range anywhere from one to three days. Contact was in varying degrees from exchanging smokes, chatting or playing football in No-Man's land to sharing meals in the opponents trenches.
I am endebted to the Quarterly Journal of the Great War Society, Vol. 2, Winter 1992/1993 for the above information. Also, for those interested, Stanley Weintraub has recently written a book entitled Silent Night: The Christmas Truce of 1914.
eeey
Oh, yes, about that football game in No-Man's land. The Germans won. 3-2.
As for the Christmas Truce, it happened in The Great War or, as the Americans say, World War I. At the Ypres salient on the Western Front the British and Germans did indeed have an unofficial truce for a few days.
The Germans actually had thousands of small "table-top" Christmas trees, complete with lighted candles, scattered on the parapets of their trenches. Seeing the lights from these Christmas trees made the British nervous, as they feared this was a sure sign of a coming night attack. At some of the dugouts in their trenches the Germans began to sing Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht. The British responded by singing English carols.
That is how the Christmas Truce of 1914 began. This spontaneous fraternization would not affect all 300 miles of the front, it occured mostly in the British Sector. And the duration of the truce would range anywhere from one to three days. Contact was in varying degrees from exchanging smokes, chatting or playing football in No-Man's land to sharing meals in the opponents trenches.
I am endebted to the Quarterly Journal of the Great War Society, Vol. 2, Winter 1992/1993 for the above information. Also, for those interested, Stanley Weintraub has recently written a book entitled Silent Night: The Christmas Truce of 1914.
eeey
Oh, yes, about that football game in No-Man's land. The Germans won. 3-2.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Can I make a few points here?
To eeey, thanks for correcting those who confused WW1 with WW2, and, more importantly, thanks for the detailed description of that famous "truce" . You may be able to correct me, but I recall that the events were entirely on the initiative of the rank&file from both sides: the commanding officers couldn't wait to get back to the serious business of Christians slaughtering Christians. (Paul McCartney's song "Pipes of Peace", in the late(?) 70's, had an accompanying video which depicted the events).
To Kush, you're right: the S&G song is entitled "7 0'clock News/ Silent Night". I am not aware of a version which recites the names of American war dead as background.
Yours, Andrew.
To eeey, thanks for correcting those who confused WW1 with WW2, and, more importantly, thanks for the detailed description of that famous "truce" . You may be able to correct me, but I recall that the events were entirely on the initiative of the rank&file from both sides: the commanding officers couldn't wait to get back to the serious business of Christians slaughtering Christians. (Paul McCartney's song "Pipes of Peace", in the late(?) 70's, had an accompanying video which depicted the events).
To Kush, you're right: the S&G song is entitled "7 0'clock News/ Silent Night". I am not aware of a version which recites the names of American war dead as background.
Yours, Andrew.
Apologies for reciting WWII instead of WWI. The version of S&G is the same as the one talked about it is the news. If you listen you can hear the names of men like a roll call. It is a newscaster relating the news and within that news there is a roll call of names. I am begining to doubt my own sanity now. I will have to check when I get home.
What a pleasure it's been to read this thread. Responding quickly ~
Lightning, I can only imagine Enya singing Silent Night ~ exquisite. I look forward to hearing it one day and know how right you are regarding its spiritual intent being carried through her rendition.
Eeey ~ thank you SO much for all the clarification on the trench-singing of Silent Night. When I heard about it, I imagined the men on the battlefield and the beauty of it all....and ended up listening through tears to the whole of the story. My sincere apologies to the Germans and to the British. To the British for supplanting them with being Americans, when it was actually the Brits; to the Germans for not crediting them with being the first ones to be singing it that night.
Were it not for having heard about it on NPR [probably PRI] last year or the year before, I'd have speculated that some American had probably co-opted the glory in its retelling.....however, I must account it to my own compromised memory
and my co-opting the glory in its retelling to its being WWII and their having been American and the first to sing. Oh my..... maybe I really do bleed American . Add to that, that I've always been more of a "concept" person than a "data" person. I know how dangerous that can be, and do try to keep details straight ~ obviously, not always successfully 
.
However, public 'humiliation" can do wonders for one's memory
~ and one thing can be assured, I'll forever remember that it was WWI, 1914, the Germans began singing and had the lights, and the British responded. The lights were candles. I'm not sure if you researched it after reading the post, or already had the information, but again, thanks. I appreciate your taking the time to bring it to us here, eeey. It remains one of the most inspiring stories I've heard in my lifetime....and thanks for the final score 
.
This brings back the most beautiful memory of my first experience of Christmas in a German friend's home ~ the tree decorated only with burning, white candles ~ the beauty took my breath away and tears came then, too. The true spirit of Christmas and the small taste of Utopia cited by Lightning were all right there with that tree.
I have a visceral memory of hearing the version you describe by Simon and Garfunkel. Very intense......very impacting.....very appropriate. I suspect the names were being read in the background on the news. A friend of mine did a similar thing with "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" [originally written in regard to the Civil War ~ and I stand corrected in anticipation of any historian who might tell me it was, in fact, written about another war], to apply to a friend he lost in the VietNam war.
Linda, part of living life is attaching new meanings to old memories ~ what they meant to us at the time, and how they've been temporarily or forever altered by life itself. Few things remain in a vacuum. Life goes on.....things take on new meaning[s].....multi-layering in our lives, rich and vibrant, sometimes dark and dense.
Andrew, yes, it was indeed those actually fighting the war whose hearts were into this truce. The perpetrators and planners stand quite apart from those on the battlefield ~ a current example of this will be included in my response on the poetry thread. If I've seen the Pipes of Peace video, I don't recall it. If I did, I didn't know at the time what the video was depicting. I would really like to see it now, knowing its background.
Paula, yes. I will respond to you privately on this.
~Lizzytysh
So much for intended brief ~
Lightning, I can only imagine Enya singing Silent Night ~ exquisite. I look forward to hearing it one day and know how right you are regarding its spiritual intent being carried through her rendition.
Eeey ~ thank you SO much for all the clarification on the trench-singing of Silent Night. When I heard about it, I imagined the men on the battlefield and the beauty of it all....and ended up listening through tears to the whole of the story. My sincere apologies to the Germans and to the British. To the British for supplanting them with being Americans, when it was actually the Brits; to the Germans for not crediting them with being the first ones to be singing it that night.
Were it not for having heard about it on NPR [probably PRI] last year or the year before, I'd have speculated that some American had probably co-opted the glory in its retelling.....however, I must account it to my own compromised memory
and my co-opting the glory in its retelling to its being WWII and their having been American and the first to sing. Oh my..... maybe I really do bleed American . Add to that, that I've always been more of a "concept" person than a "data" person. I know how dangerous that can be, and do try to keep details straight ~ obviously, not always successfully . However, public 'humiliation" can do wonders for one's memory
~ and one thing can be assured, I'll forever remember that it was WWI, 1914, the Germans began singing and had the lights, and the British responded. The lights were candles. I'm not sure if you researched it after reading the post, or already had the information, but again, thanks. I appreciate your taking the time to bring it to us here, eeey. It remains one of the most inspiring stories I've heard in my lifetime....and thanks for the final score . This brings back the most beautiful memory of my first experience of Christmas in a German friend's home ~ the tree decorated only with burning, white candles ~ the beauty took my breath away and tears came then, too. The true spirit of Christmas and the small taste of Utopia cited by Lightning were all right there with that tree.
I have a visceral memory of hearing the version you describe by Simon and Garfunkel. Very intense......very impacting.....very appropriate. I suspect the names were being read in the background on the news. A friend of mine did a similar thing with "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" [originally written in regard to the Civil War ~ and I stand corrected in anticipation of any historian who might tell me it was, in fact, written about another war], to apply to a friend he lost in the VietNam war.
Linda, part of living life is attaching new meanings to old memories ~ what they meant to us at the time, and how they've been temporarily or forever altered by life itself. Few things remain in a vacuum. Life goes on.....things take on new meaning[s].....multi-layering in our lives, rich and vibrant, sometimes dark and dense.
Andrew, yes, it was indeed those actually fighting the war whose hearts were into this truce. The perpetrators and planners stand quite apart from those on the battlefield ~ a current example of this will be included in my response on the poetry thread. If I've seen the Pipes of Peace video, I don't recall it. If I did, I didn't know at the time what the video was depicting. I would really like to see it now, knowing its background.
Paula, yes. I will respond to you privately on this.
~Lizzytysh
So much for intended brief ~
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
To all still (?) reading this string,
Having criticised others on this board for meandering "off-message", I should take my own advice! Mind you, "Silent Night" in its various shapes and sizes, has been a constant.
I've just played S&G's "Parsley, Sage...." album (very scratchy vinyl) , and their "Silent Night" contains references to Lenny Bruce, Martin Luther King, "former vice-president Richard Nixon" (sic), and the House Committee on Un-American Activities. At the time, the song struck me as comfort-shattering, and remains so.
Staying "off-message", the same album contains some great material, my favourites being "The Dangling Conversation"(the lyrics alone are poetry, believe me) and the gorgeous "For Emily, wherever I may find her".
I don't want to hi-jack S&G onto Leonard's board, but, let's face it, there was some great songwriting/recording at that time. I guess I've opened up another string!
It's been "interestring"
so far!
Yours, Andrew.
Having criticised others on this board for meandering "off-message", I should take my own advice! Mind you, "Silent Night" in its various shapes and sizes, has been a constant.
I've just played S&G's "Parsley, Sage...." album (very scratchy vinyl) , and their "Silent Night" contains references to Lenny Bruce, Martin Luther King, "former vice-president Richard Nixon" (sic), and the House Committee on Un-American Activities. At the time, the song struck me as comfort-shattering, and remains so.
Staying "off-message", the same album contains some great material, my favourites being "The Dangling Conversation"(the lyrics alone are poetry, believe me) and the gorgeous "For Emily, wherever I may find her".
I don't want to hi-jack S&G onto Leonard's board, but, let's face it, there was some great songwriting/recording at that time. I guess I've opened up another string!
It's been "interestring"
so far!Yours, Andrew.
Oh the shame the shame 
I have just listened to S&G "Seven oclock news/Silent Night and it is the newsreader reading about Nixon murdered prositutes and Vietnam.
As I was on the train home from work I suddenly realised the song where the roll call is in the background is "19" by Paul Hardcastle. I don't suppose any one other than a British person will know the song.
The sad thing is I said it with such panache and conviction.
I have just listened to S&G "Seven oclock news/Silent Night and it is the newsreader reading about Nixon murdered prositutes and Vietnam. As I was on the train home from work I suddenly realised the song where the roll call is in the background is "19" by Paul Hardcastle. I don't suppose any one other than a British person will know the song.
The sad thing is I said it with such panache and conviction.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Dear Paula,
Yes , I know the song "19", the irony being that it was the average age of the 50,000+ U.S. soldiers who wre killed in that conflict. If you throw in the 500,000+ Vietnamese, the average age would reduce to 10 or 11 (not to mention the hundreds of thousands who "survived" the chemical weapons of mass destruction).
Paula, you are the least person in the world to feel "shame" . That title belongs to those who are currently preparing for war.
Yours, Andrew.
P. S. Can I post you off-board about Leonard Cohen?
Yes , I know the song "19", the irony being that it was the average age of the 50,000+ U.S. soldiers who wre killed in that conflict. If you throw in the 500,000+ Vietnamese, the average age would reduce to 10 or 11 (not to mention the hundreds of thousands who "survived" the chemical weapons of mass destruction).
Paula, you are the least person in the world to feel "shame" . That title belongs to those who are currently preparing for war.
Yours, Andrew.
P. S. Can I post you off-board about Leonard Cohen?
Well, I'll have to go and find a copy of the S&G version of Silent Night and listen to it.
And a last note on the Christmas Truce of 1914...
After the war ended in 1918 a myth arose that only ordinary soldiers took part in the Christmas Truce, essentially a protest of cannon-fodder. This is not true. In many sectors along the Western Front NCOs and Officers initiated the rapproachment between the foes. And terms of the truce were agreed upon at "parleys" of officers between the trenches. There is also evidence that while some generals angrily opposed the truce, others tolerated it.
Christmas 1915 was to be different. The general staff of the British Forces forbade all fraternization, and to ensure their orders being carried out commanded slow bombardment all during December 25th. There was to be no Silent Night in 1915.
eeey
It wasn't only members of the general staff who were displeased by the truce. Frank Richards, a rank-and-filer of the British Army, wrote in his memoirs that the French people were furious and "were saying all manner of nasty things about the British army" when they "heard how we spent Christmas Day." So much for Entente Cordial.
And a last note on the Christmas Truce of 1914...
After the war ended in 1918 a myth arose that only ordinary soldiers took part in the Christmas Truce, essentially a protest of cannon-fodder. This is not true. In many sectors along the Western Front NCOs and Officers initiated the rapproachment between the foes. And terms of the truce were agreed upon at "parleys" of officers between the trenches. There is also evidence that while some generals angrily opposed the truce, others tolerated it.
Christmas 1915 was to be different. The general staff of the British Forces forbade all fraternization, and to ensure their orders being carried out commanded slow bombardment all during December 25th. There was to be no Silent Night in 1915.
eeey
It wasn't only members of the general staff who were displeased by the truce. Frank Richards, a rank-and-filer of the British Army, wrote in his memoirs that the French people were furious and "were saying all manner of nasty things about the British army" when they "heard how we spent Christmas Day." So much for Entente Cordial.
hello everybody,
i felt i need to share my viewpoint on this thread because i've experienced a christmas at wartime myself, so i should know how it feels to listen to granades and gloomy radio news, while singing Silent Night (Tiha Noc - in Croatian).
it feels EXACTLY as in a S&G song. i've never been able to listen to that song very often because i've got bored with the tune before i heard their version, but the first time i've heard it i decided that it is nothing short of a masterpiece.
when it comes to LC... well, he sings it nice, but it's the same old boring tune with no edge to it.
JURICA
i felt i need to share my viewpoint on this thread because i've experienced a christmas at wartime myself, so i should know how it feels to listen to granades and gloomy radio news, while singing Silent Night (Tiha Noc - in Croatian).
it feels EXACTLY as in a S&G song. i've never been able to listen to that song very often because i've got bored with the tune before i heard their version, but the first time i've heard it i decided that it is nothing short of a masterpiece.
when it comes to LC... well, he sings it nice, but it's the same old boring tune with no edge to it.
JURICA