YDF symbols ARE obvious for some. Nudity could also means innocence, freedom, and trust. Though innoncence and trust could be called stupid also. Now, if you want to have the last word, I don't mind : Let say that you "win" in this case OK? Please, take a deep breath and smile, OK?
Linda it was that webcam thing - urk. Although Switz in this thread gave a good example of how a direct sex oriented "picture" could be stupid - as well as anti-sexy at the utmost - when done in a certain context as well as it could be OK in another (i.e. it is not a matter of sexuality/nudity, but a matter of how you are doing it, do I have to stress the whole thing). The video really contrasting for the best on all this.
Because Of Video
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Tchocolatl
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linda_lakeside
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Aah. The webcam. I see now. At the time, I was sure you wouldn't take offence as you had spoken with so much passion regarding the 'innocence' of the video. A video recording the images of two girls on a bed. Then you said you might jump around in the nude - on the bed. To get a healthy pint of blood. Therefore, I took that to be another statement proclaiming how innocent you thought the act/video was. Also, I thought that by saying ...aah never mind re: the webcam and then 'have fun' to you, would ... you're right. There's no real benefit in stressing or exploring all the surrounding or underlying issues (if there are any). No sense in beating a dead horse, as they say.
Linda.
Linda.
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Tchocolatl
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And I say, If they had stop to beat the horse to death, he would surely be still alive and happy, but ey! Were would have been all the fun, for people who thinks violence (includind sarcarsm and "cynism" used to intentionally hurt others) is a joke, eh? Sorry, I miss so sense of humour when it comes to that area. Nobody's perfect. I'm just human.
So. I see that I had forget you, so I repear : If you want to have the last word, you win too, Linda. Both you and WdF on the first step of the podium. Please, take a deep breath, deer, relax and smile.
So. I see that I had forget you, so I repear : If you want to have the last word, you win too, Linda. Both you and WdF on the first step of the podium. Please, take a deep breath, deer, relax and smile.
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ForYourSmile
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- Contact:
We know the image of these bouncing girls is stupid - or silly or DUMB - for someone. Finally I have begun to understand that there are Cohen's fans who see his work just as a few nice songs sung by a golden voice, like Frank. Well, my opinion is something different. The image of these girls seems to me too innocent for the lyrics of Because Of. I would like to see another Dear Heather's video:
Please walk by me again
With a drink in your hand
And your legs all white
From the winter
I'm too perverse...
Please walk by me again
With a drink in your hand
And your legs all white
From the winter
I'm too perverse...
Visit my personal site: Web of one Leonard Cohen's fan Updated January 2025.
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Young dr. Freud
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TChocolatl,
You are one passive-aggressive Jungian. Stop taking everything so personally. As for a sense of humor, I don't think you have one. Maybe it's the language barrier. You have read things into Linda's posts that weren't there. She was being nice to you. So, get off your high horse.
And now (thanks to Tcholatl's passive-aggressive permission) I have the "last word" on Leonard's video. And that word is. Pitiful.
YdF
You are one passive-aggressive Jungian. Stop taking everything so personally. As for a sense of humor, I don't think you have one. Maybe it's the language barrier. You have read things into Linda's posts that weren't there. She was being nice to you. So, get off your high horse.
And now (thanks to Tcholatl's passive-aggressive permission) I have the "last word" on Leonard's video. And that word is. Pitiful.
YdF
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linda_lakeside
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I don't think anyone made the 'sweeping' statement that Leonard's songs are just 'nice' songs sung like Frank (Sinatra).ForYourSmile wrote:Finally I have begun to understand that there are Cohen's fans who see his work just as a few nice songs sung by a golden voice, like Frank
I think there are comparisons that can be made (eg. both were/are very influential in their own musical worlds) however, I think most of us LC fans do recognize the 'deeper' meanings of most of his lyrics.
Linda.
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ForYourSmile
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Dear Linda,
I was speaking about Cohen's work, not songs. I have said that I begin to think ..., I didn't say that anyone made this statement.
.
Antoni.
I was speaking about Cohen's work, not songs. I have said that I begin to think ..., I didn't say that anyone made this statement.
I agree absolutely with you in this. But, I think there is LC fans who have not penetrated into all his work and who can be surprised for this video, that I repeat it seems to me innocent and not pitiful (the last added contribution). Anyway, I respect all these opinions, and the different ways to admire LClinda_lakeside wrote:I think most of us LC fans do recognize the 'deeper' meanings of most of his lyrics.
.Antoni.
Visit my personal site: Web of one Leonard Cohen's fan Updated January 2025.
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Tchocolatl
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Unfortunately I have not had time to read
any comments in this forum about this.
But I have finally seen the video.
And my first impression of it is this:
That, -to discuss this video, -one would have to be
obnubilated.
Therefore I pause to take mental inventory ....
...
...ok
Yes!
I am obnuilated!
I can therefore proceed to discuss the video.
(-after this brief quote:
"Oh, how fine it is to know a thing or two."
-Moliere
)
In the video, the significance of the round window
is that it represents records or CDs,
- the medium through which most people know
of Leonard Cohen. (The girls are always in
front of the CDs. LC and Anjani appear
on either side, since they create these
particular CDs, and since, once created,
the CD become objective things to them as well.)
And the significance of the bouncing girls is that
this is the particular "naked way" that "teeny-boppers",
or "co-eds", as we used to call them, (ie, "hoes",)
have always reacted to "good-time" music.
You see, each musicians makes the music that he must,
according to his lights.
But all musicians hope that it will be theirs that bounces
the girls the highest.
Here:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/2.jpg
in the lower scenes, in semi-lotus position,
sitting on the floor in the girl's room in
the dorm, LC drops his hat like a school-boy
hoping the girls will react to his music that way,
- the way they did to Frankie Lane's, and the
Beatle's, and Marilyn Manson's, etc.
But in the upper scenes, contemporary reality
intrudes, and, (the meaning of word "cinema-verite"),
in mid verse he stops mouthing the lyrics and
falls silent.
The tragedy, the irony, manifest in Lorca's video,
is that LC's music never did get this bouncing-girls reaction.
Those that react positively to LC's music, "bed-sit".
They do not bed-bounce.
(
The reason for this is well known.
LC's music is subtle.
Subtle music can not be played loudly without
destroying ("masking" or "washing out") the
inner harmonics on which it depends.
But reasons are one thing.
Feelings are something else.
The impression Linda had is the correct one:
from before "he got it" ) -supporting the theses:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/3.jpg
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/5.jpg
The song is about LC coming to realize that he
will never bounce the girls as he once hoped to.
Or, for that matter, -as they once hoped he would.
They did try to bounce.
They put up a bold front.
But in the end they were defeated:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/4.jpg
Notice the girl in the foetal position
in the last frame. It appears while
LC is singing "Like a baby that is shivering".
It is the girls who are shivering, -not LC.
"Now come on down [from the CD] and do what you gotta do..."
(all of which a mature Dr Freud would spot
instantly with his eyes tied behind his back)
- are a running commentary on such hopes
raised and dashed:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/1.jpg
( The erect thumb in the very 2nd scene of the video
(1st frame in the jpg) is immediately followed by
a hands in pockets 3rd scene (2nd frame)
- with the curtain moving behind, causing, in effect,
his semi-transparent tie (phallic) to quietly disappear.
The scenes with the girls behind LC
generally show him with flaccid thumb
or hands behind his back.
More interesting is the scene with him
next to an empty chair, where his index
finger points to the cup, and the last
scene in this jpg, where what may be
an erect pen is bathed in light next
to flowers. Just as there are different kinds
of love, there are different kinds of errection.)
As for the dog barking, it seems to me that
there are exactly 4 places where such sounds are added:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/added.mp3
And each one is very appropriately placed in the lines:
"look at me Leonard, one last time",
Moreover, 3 of the 4 cases are clearly echoed
by something very specific in the original song:
1
Leonard's "look at me one last time"
- is repeated in dog barks,
- which are then echoed in the xylophone
2
"and they say" (laughs) "look at me Leonard"
3
"one last time",
- here the laughs are precisely echoed in Adjani's "ah ah Ahhh",
(giving meaning to what would otherwise be decoration)
4
here the laughs are echoed in Adjani's "oo oo Ooooo"
---------------------------
Altogether a finely wrought video
any comments in this forum about this.
But I have finally seen the video.
And my first impression of it is this:
That, -to discuss this video, -one would have to be
obnubilated.
Therefore I pause to take mental inventory ....
...
...ok
Yes!
I am obnuilated!
I can therefore proceed to discuss the video.
(-after this brief quote:
"Oh, how fine it is to know a thing or two."
-Moliere
)
In the video, the significance of the round window
is that it represents records or CDs,
- the medium through which most people know
of Leonard Cohen. (The girls are always in
front of the CDs. LC and Anjani appear
on either side, since they create these
particular CDs, and since, once created,
the CD become objective things to them as well.)
And the significance of the bouncing girls is that
this is the particular "naked way" that "teeny-boppers",
or "co-eds", as we used to call them, (ie, "hoes",)
have always reacted to "good-time" music.
You see, each musicians makes the music that he must,
according to his lights.
But all musicians hope that it will be theirs that bounces
the girls the highest.
Here:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/2.jpg
in the lower scenes, in semi-lotus position,
sitting on the floor in the girl's room in
the dorm, LC drops his hat like a school-boy
hoping the girls will react to his music that way,
- the way they did to Frankie Lane's, and the
Beatle's, and Marilyn Manson's, etc.
But in the upper scenes, contemporary reality
intrudes, and, (the meaning of word "cinema-verite"),
in mid verse he stops mouthing the lyrics and
falls silent.
The tragedy, the irony, manifest in Lorca's video,
is that LC's music never did get this bouncing-girls reaction.
Those that react positively to LC's music, "bed-sit".
They do not bed-bounce.
(
The reason for this is well known.
LC's music is subtle.
Subtle music can not be played loudly without
destroying ("masking" or "washing out") the
inner harmonics on which it depends.
)Given that pleasurable sensations of self-motion
are widely sought after by more normal means of
vestibular stimulation, it is suggested that
acoustically evoked sensations of self-motion may
account for the compulsion to exposure to loud
music. Given further the similarity between the
thresholds found, and the intensities and
frequency distributions that are typical in rock
concerts and dance clubs, it is also suggested
that this response may be a physiological basis
for the minimum loudness necessary for rock and
dance music to work - the "rock and roll threshold"
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet ... s&gifs=yes
But reasons are one thing.
Feelings are something else.
The impression Linda had is the correct one:
These are the most poignant sceens (-esp the empty chairs,... Leonard's and Anjani's parts were mature
and quite lovely. ... - the 'bouncing, giggling'
girls are in his past. They do not figure prominently
as Anjani does. They are in silhouette. ...
from before "he got it" ) -supporting the theses:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/3.jpg
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/5.jpg
The song is about LC coming to realize that he
will never bounce the girls as he once hoped to.
Or, for that matter, -as they once hoped he would.
They did try to bounce.
They put up a bold front.
But in the end they were defeated:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/4.jpg
Notice the girl in the foetal position
in the last frame. It appears while
LC is singing "Like a baby that is shivering".
It is the girls who are shivering, -not LC.
"Now come on down [from the CD] and do what you gotta do..."
The phallic symbols in the video -Don't Leave Me This Way - Thelma Houston
------------------------------------------
Um-hm-hm... aah ah ah...
Don't leave me this way
I can't survive, can't stay alive
Without your love, oh baby
Don't leave me this way, no
I can't exist, I'll surely miss your tender kiss
Don't leave me this way
(A broken man with empty hands
Oh baby please, don't leave me this way)
Aaah baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you
Now come on down and do what you gotta do
(Now come on girl and do what you gotta do)
You started this fire down in my soul
Now can't you see it's burning out of control
Come on (now) satisfy the need in me
Only your good lovin' can set me free... hey
Don't, don't you leave me this way, no
Don't you understand I'm at your command
Oh baby please, please don't leave me this way
Aaah baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you
Now come on down and do what you gotta do
(Now come on girl and do what you gotta do)
You started this fire down in my soul
Now can't you see it's burning out of control
Come on (now) satisfy the need in me
Only your good lovin' can set me free... hey
Need your lovin' baby, need need your love right now...
Your love is so important to me... got to have it...
('Cause it would be wrong
To string me along a love so true)
(all of which a mature Dr Freud would spot
instantly with his eyes tied behind his back)
- are a running commentary on such hopes
raised and dashed:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/1.jpg
( The erect thumb in the very 2nd scene of the video
(1st frame in the jpg) is immediately followed by
a hands in pockets 3rd scene (2nd frame)
- with the curtain moving behind, causing, in effect,
his semi-transparent tie (phallic) to quietly disappear.
The scenes with the girls behind LC
generally show him with flaccid thumb
or hands behind his back.
More interesting is the scene with him
next to an empty chair, where his index
finger points to the cup, and the last
scene in this jpg, where what may be
an erect pen is bathed in light next
to flowers. Just as there are different kinds
of love, there are different kinds of errection.)
As for the dog barking, it seems to me that
there are exactly 4 places where such sounds are added:
http://relay.twoshakesofalambstail.com/added.mp3
And each one is very appropriately placed in the lines:
"look at me Leonard, one last time",
Moreover, 3 of the 4 cases are clearly echoed
by something very specific in the original song:
1
Leonard's "look at me one last time"
- is repeated in dog barks,
- which are then echoed in the xylophone
2
"and they say" (laughs) "look at me Leonard"
3
"one last time",
- here the laughs are precisely echoed in Adjani's "ah ah Ahhh",
(giving meaning to what would otherwise be decoration)
4
here the laughs are echoed in Adjani's "oo oo Ooooo"
---------------------------
Altogether a finely wrought video
-
linda_lakeside
- Posts: 3857
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
~greg,
I believe your fine assessment of this video shall be studied by the obnubilated everywhere during the upcoming ages. I don't think I saw a typo either.
Thank you for your insight and all that typing.
Regards,
Linda.
I agree with you assertion that the phallic symbol noted, would, indeed be spotted by a mature Dr. Freud with his eyes tied behind his back. Thank you once again.
I believe your fine assessment of this video shall be studied by the obnubilated everywhere during the upcoming ages. I don't think I saw a typo either.
Thank you for your insight and all that typing.
Regards,
Linda.
I agree with you assertion that the phallic symbol noted, would, indeed be spotted by a mature Dr. Freud with his eyes tied behind his back. Thank you once again.
-
linda_lakeside
- Posts: 3857
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
Well done, ~greg -- excellent indeed, but we must not forget that this track, as big part of album itself, is more or less very playfull, so any kind of analysis don't need to be too serious 
It's just the video, and it's good enough and it fits the song's theme:
And better than 95% of videos sawn on TVs - actually, I am surprised that Lorca has so much talent for movie making. I thought she ownes a furniture store; although I heard she's a poet also.
It's just the video, and it's good enough and it fits the song's theme:
"Because of a few songs..."?The song is about LC coming to realize that he
will never bounce the girls as he once hoped to.
Or, for that matter, -as they once hoped he would.
And better than 95% of videos sawn on TVs - actually, I am surprised that Lorca has so much talent for movie making. I thought she ownes a furniture store; although I heard she's a poet also.
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)