How have L.C.'s words and music benefitted you?

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Thu May 19, 2005 7:50 am

The work of Leonard Cohen, is abundantly meaningful. I know
that some here have meaningfully benefitted from it in their lives,
beyond the scope of ordinary enjoyment. Care to say how?

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:25 am

It is difficult to say exactly how. I can tell you it touches so deep and personal aspects (some I just do not know how to share). Maybe like Bruna said in another thread do I have make some creations of my own out of his work. The roots are similar but it seems that is does not matter a bit (if I refer to other fans around the world), but for me. For example in a detail of drawing in the booklet of DH. And many, many more.

It is difficult to say because it is magical. I may sound to exagerate a little, but no. This is the bare truth.

Probably because it operates at some uncounscious levels. If I think to something more substantial, I'll come back to tell you. It is a lot of synchronicities (you have to refer to works of Carl Gustav Jung to know what I mean) all the time.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Fri May 20, 2005 1:24 am

Tchocolatl,

I don't know which thread you refer to when you speak of "creations of
my own out of his work." That Leonard Cohen does inspire others to
creative states, is a valuable benefit, though.

Synchronicities seem to occur, ala Jung, at times of resonance to
something. That we can resonate to "deep and personal aspects"
of his work suggests that we'll experience synchroncities at this
meaningful level.

By the way, that we "do not know how to share" is okay. Artists
such as L.C. do and that helps us too.--This kind of sharing
connects us to them, to others (generally speaking) and to
ourselves.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Fri May 20, 2005 2:41 am

Indeed. Yes.

But what about you Steven? Meaningfull benefit(s) that you dare or can share.

P.S. : the threat is : "is it always good to know details" opened by Bruna, the last post by him contained the idea I came with on my previous post.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Fri May 20, 2005 7:07 am

Tchhocolatl,

Having been born into difficult circumstances, where there was little if
any authenticity or personal validation, artists like Leonard Cohen
not only spoke truthfully about feelings, they validated that there
were others that shared them and could transform them into works
of beauty. I never thought much about this before, but I imagine that
experiencing this in Leonard's and some others music and words
were some of the cracks "where the light gets in."

Anyway, those years have passed. There is now much light. For
those still in darkness, know that you'll appreciate the light all the
more so, for whatever you are going through, when the light
makes it in.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Sat May 21, 2005 4:04 pm

Thanks Steven.

Life is a rose with thorns. Yes, appreciate it in its entire reality demands a wisdom and maturity not so easy to achieve. Moreover, buddhists think that there is only 3 kinds "of thorns" that we can not by pass : the sickness,

the death,

to love

without being loved in return

. All the other sufferings are created by us. Hum...

As Einstein thought a prejudice is more difficult to broke than an atom, I guess the bushes of roses will continue to scratch for a long time ahead. But he knew nothing about quantic physic did he?

Take care

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Sat May 21, 2005 8:06 pm

Tchocolatl,

Roses, thorns, sufferings, buddhism all in one paragraph.

The buddhists see "clinging" as one of the causes of suffering.
Neil Young's "Love Is A Rose" comes to mind as somehow
appropriate here:

"Love is a rose
but you better not pick it
It only grows when it's on the vine,
A handful of thorns and
you'll know you've missed it
You lose your love
when you say the word 'mine.'"

Getting beyond prejudices and other limitations is more a function of
the heart than intellect, I believe. I hadn't heard Einstein's comment
before about prejudice.

You too, take care.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Sun May 22, 2005 2:08 am

I do not know this song. I'll check what it is in music. The lyrics are, indeed, mostly appropriate. So true.

The clinging thing... I heard an appealing image about it : if you follow the waves, then you arrive on the shore without damage, if you resist, you are throwed by the fury of the current on the rocks that boarded the beach and thorned.

Buddhists say also that desires are the source of all problems. There, however, I am totally blind&deaf to the wisdom of this. Desires is a compass in my regard.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:05 am

Tchocolatl,

I hadn't encountered the image you spoke of, but there there are "riptides,"
currents that can carry swimmers away and exhaust them when
they try to resist. Recommendations for them include not trying
to fight against them, but allowing them to carry you along as you
indirectly make your way back to the shore. Yes, the image you spoke
of and these recommendations can be metaphors for "going with the flow,"
which presumes letting go of "clinging" to another way of responding.

Many Buddhists would say that it isn't desires per se that are a
source of the problems, mainly, but undue attachment to
securing the objects of the desires. I've heard of austere practices
that do seek to remove desires, though. These seem like harsh,
extreme readings of what Buddha is said to have advocated. I see him
as having rejected the extreme stuff and chosen more of a "middle
path." But, I'm no expert and to borrow from your (and Leonard Cohen's)
way of expressing yourselves: "I'm just holding the fort."

Jonnie Falafel · Post by **Jonnie Falafel** » Sun May 22, 2005 1:13 pm

William Blake - who probably didn't have Buddhism in mind wrote:

"He who binds himself to the joy
Doth the winged life destroy
He who kisses the joy
As it flies
Bathes in eternitys paradise"

"Oh rose thou art sick
The invisible worm
That flies in the night
Has found out thy bed of crimson joy
And doth the winged life destroy"

.... But I'd never have read Blake were it not for Leonard Cohen or Bob Dylan.

Tri-me · Post by **Tri-me** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:01 pm

Leonard Cohen inspires me to write and to observe life, love, happiness, sadness.... all of it. I don't write poetry; wish I could, mostly short scripts and observations, short stories.

He can make me laugh and cry.

Everybody knows that you’ve been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two

The sound of his deep soft gravely voice, his words, his physical beauty stimulates my hypothalamus and pituitary gland to send good hormones throughout my body.

Suffering (samsara) is cyclical. It can wake us up!!! On CBC's Tapestry they did a show on Rumi, is was a lecture by Coleman Barks. He said something like this (in a cheerful voice)....One day jealousy came to visit, I said hello old friend I thought you were dead, haven't seen you for over 25 years.....come on in.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:03 am

One thought leading to another, thanks for the poem, Jonnie Falafel. It is painful. Too many roses died by the hand of the man who "loved" them. Though I believe William Blake did not meant this, but this is what comes to my mind, first. Just too much control can do the same. We love somebody but instead of taking him/her as he/she (pfiew) his/her (

) we want to "fix" the relation and the other. Then it became sick.

I am not an expert in term of buddhism also, Steven. It seems, that the wisdom was biased. It makes more sense to me now, like you expained. Like this karma thing. Buddha said that if we see someone in need, we must help. Not say dryly and snobbishly "it is karma, the person is paying for what was done in a previous life" rejoycing in how fare life is.

Tri-me, this is the circle that closed itself : we are responsible for the majority of our suffering and if we could accept the "necessary" suffering without adding more layers of suffering by non-acceptance of life... but... easy to understand, not so easy to do (to me).

Yes, it is comforting this Leonard Cohen thing

You should see my cat relax deep deep, deeply, deeper, deeEEep, when I play 10 new songs.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:19 am

He can make me laugh and cry.
Quote:
Everybody knows that you’ve been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two

The sound of his deep soft gravely voice, his words, his physical beauty stimulates my hypothalamus and pituitary gland to send good hormones throughout my body.

Oh, yes. Absolutely! This is how I feel about Leonard! Then, at other times, I'm like Tchoco's cat. What a guy...

Linda.

bruna · Post by **bruna** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:45 pm

I can´t help myself, I must tell you what LC means to me, although it is rather intimate.
I am rather visual. I can´t formulate my thoughts as perfectly as most of you. LC´s poetry gives me great images. They taste like wine and sometimes I even feel a little drunk by them.
Cohen´s words are a catalyzer for me. O know it sounds like babble now.
I will try to use some example. Everybody knows the song Suzanne. Whe I heard it for the very first time I was fascinated by the part about Jesus:

And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone...

I had some amazing images of Jesus in my head, but suddenly, I don´t know how, they were squeezed out by a new one: I saw Jesus walking upon the water. He started sinking slowly. And I felt the situation. It wasn´t Jesus anymore, it was me. I reminded the moments, when I wanted to show, to be successful and I failed. All the tragicomic spoiled performances with laughing audience...

Though I am sure LC didn´t mean it this way at all, he gave the strong feeling, and what´s more, another feeling, that I am not the only one who suffers sometimes.

Tri-me · Post by **Tri-me** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:19 pm

Bruna thank you for sharing your experience with Suzanne.

Jesus like the Buddah was a human with all the same feelings and experiences available to us. Buddha became enlightened so he was able to get a grasp on the human experience and remian "awake". In Shambhala Buddhism we say that we are capable of achieving this, some Buddhists believe that this is not possible. Jesus was an example of an ideal human.

How you saw yourself in your visualiation was .........

for you to decide

I am big on prajnaparamita inate wisdom we know more than we think we do and thinking too much gets in the way of accessing the info. The answer to the ultimate question is 42.