Tunes and Flowers.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
sounds like you are having fun in edinburgh and thats good.some of leonards poems took half a decade or more to finish,and they were worth the wait!-
Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Dear elazar,
We usually see the final version of a poem, whether it be from a 20th century writer, or especially one from a previous century. We don't see the PROCESS, the sketches/drafts/edits.
Some of Keats's sketches were auctioned recently.
We're lucky on this board to have access to some of Leonard's hand-written attempts (stress marks included!) .
Computer-editing prevents the reader from seeing the development, the birth. I'm old-fashioned in some respects, and continue to put pen to paper when I write.
Yours, Andrew.
We usually see the final version of a poem, whether it be from a 20th century writer, or especially one from a previous century. We don't see the PROCESS, the sketches/drafts/edits.
Some of Keats's sketches were auctioned recently.
We're lucky on this board to have access to some of Leonard's hand-written attempts (stress marks included!) .
Computer-editing prevents the reader from seeing the development, the birth. I'm old-fashioned in some respects, and continue to put pen to paper when I write.
Yours, Andrew.
Vesuvius ~ Yes, I do stand corrected for erroneously referring to Miranda instead of you regarding your questioning. Thanks for pointing it out. However, my discourse [or lack thereof] with Miranda was unrelated to this posting. My original questions and follow-up with Miranda did not occur in a vacuum, but were in direct response to her blindsiding the writing of those who post in the forum-member's poetry section, and who had not said anything negative to or about her. My reference to this was an aside on the immediate questioning of what is presumed to be a negative. The fact that it was done by you rather than her doesn't change anything, and perhaps only re-enforces that this is something people do....and something that can be expected. "Poor Miranda" [as I believe SoreLoser said] is not "in trouble" ~ and anything that has occurred can be viewed via another saying over here, "Don't start anything you can't finish."
Don't you think you should clear this up over on the other thread. I went to the poll thread because I knew it would be wrong to let everyone think Miranda had criticized you when it was me that criticized you.
You should let everyone know that you made a mistake. Not just here on the poetry site. But on the Comments and Questions site as well.
And now that I re-read your reply to me, I see that you say it doesn't make any difference anyway whether it was Miranda or myself. That it doesn't change anything. I think it does a little. You made a false/incorrect statement about Miranda. You used this statement as an example of her visciousness. Only it wasn't her being viscious, it was me. And I don't think I was being viscious. I think you were being sarcastic about Andrew. I think you thought Andrew was getting too big for his britches.
Remember, you told me: "Don't start anything you can't finish" Does that mean you now want to fight with me?
You should let everyone know that you made a mistake. Not just here on the poetry site. But on the Comments and Questions site as well.
And now that I re-read your reply to me, I see that you say it doesn't make any difference anyway whether it was Miranda or myself. That it doesn't change anything. I think it does a little. You made a false/incorrect statement about Miranda. You used this statement as an example of her visciousness. Only it wasn't her being viscious, it was me. And I don't think I was being viscious. I think you were being sarcastic about Andrew. I think you thought Andrew was getting too big for his britches.
Remember, you told me: "Don't start anything you can't finish" Does that mean you now want to fight with me?
Actually, Vesuvius, my comment regarding "Don't start anything you can't finish" was stated directly [including her name] regarding Miranda.
It's premature [preemptive] of you to comment on my not having commented on something I had yet to read. The Poetry Section comes first as you scroll down the contents page. I typically read the sections and threads as I come to them. I read this here first and responded. Then, I came to the Comments and Questions section, read and responded there, and referred to my response here.
Even if I hadn't done it in that order, it's not unreasonable to assume that in the midst of all this that anything posted here will also get read, but as it was, it was a matter of what I read first. And, of course, I will post where I feel it's most appropriate to, anyway, regardless of where someone else feels I should. I'm guessing you've probably read my response there by now, regardless....which was certainly posted prior to your telling me I should do so.
When I cited your post I didn't say it had anything to do with her "viciousness," but rather the immediacy of one's response to something perceived as negative being said about another person........
"You didn't like it yourself when you thought I was criticizing Andrew when I said he knows he has talent ~ and you addressed it immediately."
There was nothing even remotely related to "viciousness" when I wrote that. I meant it as an example of immediacy, which is what I said within the statement. Apparently, you felt vicious toward me when you posted it? If you did, I didn't pick up on it.
I have no argument with you. I haven't seen you do what I responded to with Miranda. I saw you question me, but missed any viciousness in your questioning. I also didn't "want to fight" with Miranda. Unfortunately, when people take stands on anything, what ensues can become quite frictious and uncomfortable all the way around. Going against the stream isn't always easy.
~ Lizzytysh
It's premature [preemptive] of you to comment on my not having commented on something I had yet to read. The Poetry Section comes first as you scroll down the contents page. I typically read the sections and threads as I come to them. I read this here first and responded. Then, I came to the Comments and Questions section, read and responded there, and referred to my response here.
Even if I hadn't done it in that order, it's not unreasonable to assume that in the midst of all this that anything posted here will also get read, but as it was, it was a matter of what I read first. And, of course, I will post where I feel it's most appropriate to, anyway, regardless of where someone else feels I should. I'm guessing you've probably read my response there by now, regardless....which was certainly posted prior to your telling me I should do so.
When I cited your post I didn't say it had anything to do with her "viciousness," but rather the immediacy of one's response to something perceived as negative being said about another person........
"You didn't like it yourself when you thought I was criticizing Andrew when I said he knows he has talent ~ and you addressed it immediately."
There was nothing even remotely related to "viciousness" when I wrote that. I meant it as an example of immediacy, which is what I said within the statement. Apparently, you felt vicious toward me when you posted it? If you did, I didn't pick up on it.
I have no argument with you. I haven't seen you do what I responded to with Miranda. I saw you question me, but missed any viciousness in your questioning. I also didn't "want to fight" with Miranda. Unfortunately, when people take stands on anything, what ensues can become quite frictious and uncomfortable all the way around. Going against the stream isn't always easy.
~ Lizzytysh
Last edited by lizzytysh on Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
How on G..d's green earth did you get that ["As though the mistake were mine!"] out of that ["And to thank me for the 'clarification', for 'pointing it out."]? I'll rephrase it ~ thank you for clarifying for all concerned [including me] and pointing it out to all concerned [including me] that it was not Miranda, but you who had made the comment in question. If you had made the mistake, there would have been nothing for you to clarify or to point out, that I would be thanking you for.....I don't even know how to twist the words around to make it mean that it was your mistake! I was the one who called the wrong name.
As far as saying I'm sorry for misattributing, that's no problem....I would have been inclined to have immediately done so, had I been trying to establish culpability when I cited it. So, I apologize to Miranda as I would to anyone for misquoting anyone. It's ironic that I had used it to make a point that "was"/would have been actually complimentary toward Miranda.
As far as saying I'm sorry for misattributing, that's no problem....I would have been inclined to have immediately done so, had I been trying to establish culpability when I cited it. So, I apologize to Miranda as I would to anyone for misquoting anyone. It's ironic that I had used it to make a point that "was"/would have been actually complimentary toward Miranda.