Pope John Paul II ~ Goodbye To A Good Man

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:18 am

One doesn't need to be Catholic to know that a good man has died. A good man, a kind man, an honourable man, a compassionate and caring man, an open man, and a man with whom it was easy to talk. I've always liked Pope John Paul. I never realized until now what a uniquely complex and multi-faceted man he was. A doctorate's degree in philosophy; a doctorate's degree in theology; a playwright; a poet; a soccer player. As I listen to reports on him, how he began his theological studies in secretive manner, and what he has stood for through the years, I understand why he emanated such goodness. He was unlike Popes of the past, and no Pope will ever again be like him.

I've never been Catholic and, perhaps, some other non-Catholics or non-Christians will have issues with how he was during his papal reign, so I prepare for that as I write this. However, I have nothing but respect for how he has dealt with the power entrusted to him. I have nothing but respect for him.

Many around the world, from many religions and those who aren't religious at all, mourn his death. To all who are Catholic, please accept my condolences in the loss of your highest leader. In my quiet way, I mourn his death, too. The world has lost a good man. May you, Pope John Paul II, rest in peace and enjoy the rewards of the honourable life you lived here on earth.

Love,
Elizabeth

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:32 am

I agree with every word you've said. He was a truly great person.

Couple of musical anecdotes: I saw on NBC a video snippet of the pope intently watching while a rap artist does a really crazy dance for him.

Also, it appears while hearing a recording of Sinatra's My Way someone commented that it was on top of charts for 6 months and the pope corrected him saying it wasnt My Way but Strangers in the Night that was on top of the charts for 6 months.

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:56 am

Karol (John Paul II) was a most extraordinary pope. And he was a convincing person. It is said that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. One may have doubts about that, but my son's reaction on Karol's dying was to say: "He is the Pope. His successor will be The Pope's represantative on Earth."

We lost someone worth remembering.

tom

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:21 am

Oh, yes, I believe that Kush, about watching the rap singer so intently; and then correcting someone on the status of a 'pop' song. On an NPR segment on him today, they played a portion of a song that was played for him [I wish I'd heard fully the lead-in to it, as it seemed the song had been written, in some way related to him] and they said he responded, "Bella! Bella!" It sounded more operatic, so maybe it was simply played for him.

Your son's reaction was very insightful, Tom. He's so much to try to live up to. Now, I want to read about his life. On Google, one of the blurbs spoke of a poor boy from Poland. A really amazing man. With all I've heard [and, no doubt, even more that I haven't], it's no wonder he was so accessible to people. There seem to be many memorable quotes that have come from his speeches, and his speaking. The more I learn about him, the sadder I feel. They were stressing today that the Cardinals won't even be trying to find someone like him, and that it's more likely that the one selected will be significantly different, by intent, so as to "be his own man."

He really did make a quantum leap as a Pope in relationship to the people he represented, and in his relationship with the world. I was attentive to his death process as though I had been one of his 'followers.' I've always loved his face and the humility of his manner. "Such a good man" was always the phrase I felt when I saw him.

Love,
Elizabeth

Partisan · Post by **Partisan** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:44 am

A good man who condemned millions to die of Aids in Africa due to his views on condoms. It is quite a legacy he leaves. Of course, that may just be a one off. But no, then we have the child abuse cover ups. A good man? Are you sure? "One may smile and smile and be a villain."

p.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:59 pm

It is Earth here, therefore the man could not have been perfect. I did not like this contraception thing P. talked about, and also that he was so againts women playing equal social roles as men in the Church (like for many Catholics priests the whole women question seemed to be eluded in a cult for the Virgin Mary). But he was a real humanist and for me this is a necessary quality for a Pope, to be a "real" Pope.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:20 pm

Partisan, I'm puzzled. "Abuse cover up". What do you mean? As far as I know, Chuch recognized its fault and took all the necessay measures to avoid such a non-sense in the future. I am not a "church person" nor a praticant, but I find this more honest and courageous then the REST of abusers that, nonetheless they will never recognized what they are still doing is wrong, but they will try to continue by all means.

I mean fat cats that are involved in juvenil prostitution around the wold, other fat cats that close their eyes on all this for not being distrubed in their little everyday life. And all the "good" non religious people that have abused "freely" as well, sometimes, in much worse manners. And you can call this evil if you want. I don't mind.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:03 pm

Is this going to be an argument which will drag on for weeks or one which will end rapidly? Perhaps there could be an argument over this too?

bee · Post by **bee** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:14 pm

Partisan wrote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A good man who condemned millions to die of Aids in Africa due to his views on condoms. It is quite a legacy he leaves. Of course, that may just be a one off. But no, then we have the child abuse cover ups. A good man? Are you sure? "One may smile and smile and be a villain."

Are you a good man, Partisan? Are you sure?

bee · Post by **bee** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:30 pm

Dear Lizzy, thank you very much for your thoughts about our beloved Pope, you said it so well.
He was a good man, he was a holy man, God rest his soul.
I converted to Catholicism because of him in 1979. He has brought many blessings to my life, my family and lives of many of my friends, to people I know as well as to people I don't know. He was a gift from above.

bee · Post by **bee** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:37 pm

I am not a "church person" nor a praticant, but I find this more honest and courageous then the REST of abusers that, nonetheless they will never recognized what they are still doing is wrong, but they will try to continue by all means.

Tchoco- it is so right what you said- how come, that the ones who commit evil, always find somebody else to blame for what they did?

ForYourSmile · Post by **ForYourSmile** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:10 am

Dear Lizzy,

Well, I suffered a different process, I was born catholic and now I am an apostate, and atheist.

Today I do not want to speak badly about JP II, only I will say that I do not believe in the catholic hierarchy, though I believe in any Catholics and in their work.

If I would show my beliefs - yes, I have beliefs - do not doubt that they would qualify me as an irreverent, discourteous, intolerant and all that. Speaking about tolerance, these days I am getting bored hearing dogmatism, indoctrination, proselytism and catholic propaganda. The best place to speak of religion is in a temple.

Mirek · Post by **Mirek** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:37 pm

partisan wrote:A good man who condemned millions to die of Aids in Africa due to his views on condoms. It is quite a legacy he leaves. Of course, that may just be a one off. But no, then we have the child abuse cover ups. A good man? Are you sure? "One may smile and smile and be a villain."

John Paul II covered up child abuse? PROVE IT MAN, don't lie!
Partisan - first THINK... then write - the second is optional.

I won't go into deeper discussion - at least before this Great Man will be buried.

I lit a candle for him [`]

Mirek

simonelimone · Post by **simonelimone** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:16 am

I quit the catholic church long ago. As I’m not a member of the family anymore I don’t have the right nor the interest to criticize inner catholic affairs. I respect this community and expect them to respect me as an atheist as well.

But nonetheless I have the right and the duty to criticize the catholic policy if it has an effect on humanity as a whole.

I light a candle for all AIDS-victims that could have been prevented if John Paul II had a different view on the use of condoms.

Keep up Partisan, you’re not alone!

bee · Post by **bee** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:16 pm

I light a candle for all AIDS-victims that could have been prevented if John Paul II had a different view on the use of condoms

When silliness becomes a serious conviction, that could lead to many deadly mistakes.
The Pope and the Church had a pretty good policy which still stands-don't fuck around, but if you do-condom might save you, or not. Isn't it enough for you that the school teachers are distributing condoms-say, OK kiddies, go on and do it, just don't forget the condoms!
Now you wished that the Pope would do the same-just bless the condoms with the holy water and off you go?
And why, being atheist would you light the candle- you don't believe in soul? And why- being atheist would you worry about the AID's victims- they just the flesh which dies every day.

As I’m not a member of the family anymore I don’t have the right nor the interest to criticize inner catholic affairs.

Nobody can wash off the water of baptism, you can say as many times as you wish- I am not a member of family, what's done is done, as well if you can say- my father is no more my father- he will be your father for ever, no matter how you feel about it. You are just one who denies his father, or one who denies his faith and Church. Like some children feel embaressed of their parents in certain age- they think they are better then them or deserve better, just like you with the Church, you think you are better and smarter. May be you are, but only time will tell- come you at age of seventy- your smarts will not be at that a great interest for you or anybody else. Then your soul will start to wonder- why am I starving?
That day all your smart racionalism will give you only one answer- because of your vanity and silliness.