My vocabulary is limited, but it seems there is no word existing in the English language that conveys all that's needed to describe the widespread Tsunami destruction on all levels. I guess the name itself will come to represent such extremes. The toll is currently quoted as being more than 84,000.
Yes, I believe animals do have that sixth sense that you're describing, Lightning. I'm not sure which animals [other than dogs] have heightened hearing, or sensitivity to vibrations or changes in barometric pressure. However, all of these things surely occurred in advance, beginning deep in the ocean and emanating outward. Thank G~d for the animals being spared. Along with all the advanced scientific equipment, it seems we would do well to become acute in the area of animal observation. It seems there may still be some carcasses beneath the debris and mud.
Each life saved through a miracle story, such as the one about the children and the elephant [one who thank G~d had not departed, or perhaps didn't have a choice], brings a magnitude of feelings of gratefulness. Every, single life has such great meaning.
I've heard this morning that now those who are missing are being presumed dead. Some villages have not even been reached and between that and the lack of safe, drinking water and sanitary facilities, the current figures are expected to double.
That's an interesting incident regarding the volcano and the surviving animals. I don't see the results of this Tsunami, however, as being any true indication of man's having forgotten how to live with nature. I know from having seen evacuations that the reality of this many people 'knowing' and the logistics of their seeking and reaching safety is just not reasonably tenable. Communication systems in these areas are likely not as we think of them to be. Not everyone has animals in their environment to observe. It's too awfully close to an example of "blaming the victim." Things are horrible and horrid enough already.
Tsunami
For those of You not knowing of the fate of friends currently in Thailand, here is a link to a Website provided by one of the leading Thai travel Agencies:
Sawasdee
There you find a list of most Hotels in the affected areas, with thier (often updated) status. So, if you know the name of the Hotel and the region your friends, you can find information here.
Areas not mentioned in this list are safe and have not been hit by the waves at all!
Believe it or not: Phuket, although heavily devastated on some beaches, is already going back to normal life now, with most Hotels and beaches open. New tourists arriving these days.
On Phi Phi Island as well as Khao Lak the situation is still very severe. These regions will take a long time to recover, I fear.
I am Austrian, and moved to Thailand about half a Year ago.
Why did I do it?
Let me answer with Leonard:
I came so far for beauty
I left so much behind
My patience and my family
My masterpiece unsigned
In the hours and days immediately after the disaster, I remembered another Song's lines:
I told my mother "Mother I must leave you
preserve my room but do not shed a tear
Should rumour of a shabby ending reach you
it was half my fault and half the atmosphere"
Myfair
Sawasdee
There you find a list of most Hotels in the affected areas, with thier (often updated) status. So, if you know the name of the Hotel and the region your friends, you can find information here.
Areas not mentioned in this list are safe and have not been hit by the waves at all!
Believe it or not: Phuket, although heavily devastated on some beaches, is already going back to normal life now, with most Hotels and beaches open. New tourists arriving these days.
On Phi Phi Island as well as Khao Lak the situation is still very severe. These regions will take a long time to recover, I fear.
I am Austrian, and moved to Thailand about half a Year ago.
Why did I do it?
Let me answer with Leonard:
I came so far for beauty
I left so much behind
My patience and my family
My masterpiece unsigned
In the hours and days immediately after the disaster, I remembered another Song's lines:
I told my mother "Mother I must leave you
preserve my room but do not shed a tear
Should rumour of a shabby ending reach you
it was half my fault and half the atmosphere"
Myfair
Can you believe the mentality of the morons:-
"Engineer Paul Culiffe from Manchester arrived on an almost empty flight from Malaysia to go to Pantong Beach in Phuket. Sipping a gin and tonic, he said he and two friends were booked into a beach front hotel which escaped serious damage and had been assured of a "wonderful holiday" by staff.
"Our friends think we're mad", he said, the only risk we face I think is if there's another quake. We love the place that much and we thought we would take the risk",
Meanwhile Nick Byrne flew home from the same area saying "There were bodies flooding in and out of the sea, it was like a horror film it was absoultely terrible"
Where do arseholes like Paul Culiffe get off?
Myfair very apt quote from the Traitor. A lot of Leonard's lyrics are very seer like.
"Engineer Paul Culiffe from Manchester arrived on an almost empty flight from Malaysia to go to Pantong Beach in Phuket. Sipping a gin and tonic, he said he and two friends were booked into a beach front hotel which escaped serious damage and had been assured of a "wonderful holiday" by staff.
"Our friends think we're mad", he said, the only risk we face I think is if there's another quake. We love the place that much and we thought we would take the risk",
Meanwhile Nick Byrne flew home from the same area saying "There were bodies flooding in and out of the sea, it was like a horror film it was absoultely terrible"
Where do arseholes like Paul Culiffe get off?
Myfair very apt quote from the Traitor. A lot of Leonard's lyrics are very seer like.
There are apparently relatives arriving in the ravaged areas, wanting to try to find, or at least 'say goodbye' to, their loved ones. The 'authorities' are asking that they not come, due to the chaos and the now-physical-unidentifiability of the lost.
To travel there, out of what is most likely morbid curiousity, at this point is unbelievable to me. Yet, the hotel keepers are assuring them of a wonderful holiday? I guess that's an indication of the extreme financial needs of the area at this time. These travelers may find that the risks go beyond another quake's occurring, as shortages continue to increase and disease spreads. Rightful desperation is only going to increase.
To travel there, out of what is most likely morbid curiousity, at this point is unbelievable to me. Yet, the hotel keepers are assuring them of a wonderful holiday? I guess that's an indication of the extreme financial needs of the area at this time. These travelers may find that the risks go beyond another quake's occurring, as shortages continue to increase and disease spreads. Rightful desperation is only going to increase.
These numbers are staggering. In addition to the 117,000 [or perhaps included], there are a huge number of Europeans who were caught in the horror. Swiss citizensn at an unknown number; 2,500 missing from Sweden; 1,000 missing from Germany, with 33 confirmed dead; 90 missing from France, with 21 confirmed dead; 600 missing from Italy; and the British and Australian citizens at unknown numbers. I had no idea that the resort region that was part of it was so huge. There are apparently hundreds of Americans missing, as well.
Have you used the website that Myfair gave here, Paula, to check on Mayani and her other relatives?
Have you used the website that Myfair gave here, Paula, to check on Mayani and her other relatives?
Last edited by lizzytysh on Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
[quote="lizzytysh"_.
"Thank G~d for the animals being spared. "
While we're at it, do we also thank God ( mine will not suffer a hyphenated name, bowdlerized like a naughty four letter word, rather likes seeing that name spelled out fully and correctly, enjoys the publicity ) for the 117,000 (human) animals not spared?
"Thank G~d for the animals being spared. "
While we're at it, do we also thank God ( mine will not suffer a hyphenated name, bowdlerized like a naughty four letter word, rather likes seeing that name spelled out fully and correctly, enjoys the publicity ) for the 117,000 (human) animals not spared?
I don't understand what you're getting at here, Lightning. I wouldn't thank G~d that 117,000+ people were not spared. I will, however, thank G~d for every being [animal or human] that is. It's not the existence of the being that my thanks is for, but the reality of their having been spared [which I am not seeing as the intentional choice of any higher being].
Regarding spelling, I like the idea [that I learned of since coming to the Sony Board] of the - or the ~ [which I use, as it replicates more for me the figure 8 associated with eternity] representing the unknown that can never be known.
Regarding spelling, I like the idea [that I learned of since coming to the Sony Board] of the - or the ~ [which I use, as it replicates more for me the figure 8 associated with eternity] representing the unknown that can never be known.
This reply makes as little sense to me as the event itself. If you hold God responsible for sparing the animals you also have to hold he/she/ it/I responsible for killing the others. It's OK if you don't want to think about that.
The character ~ is called "tilde" and is used in Spanish over the "o" in senor to make it pronounced "senyor." It looks sinusoidal ( like a sine wave) but has nothing to do with the figure eight on its side.
The character ~ is called "tilde" and is used in Spanish over the "o" in senor to make it pronounced "senyor." It looks sinusoidal ( like a sine wave) but has nothing to do with the figure eight on its side.
Hi Lightning ~
As for the literal meaning of the ~ : " . . . as it replicates more for me the figure 8 . . . " ~ it is with my imagination that I fill in the gaps that would be solid in the 8. A sine wave is fine with me, too. I'm not sure what a sine wave is, however, sound waves remind me of eternity, and the ~ reminds me of sound waves, as well. It also resembles a 'heat' wave, one that's seen 'hovering' just above hot pavement in the summer desert. It, likewise, resembles a water wave. Many aspects of nature ['eternity'] can be seen in it. There are few straight lines in nature. I have not held myself to a strict standard for the common/specific usage of the ~ sign, just as those who use the - are not doing. AS far as I'm aware, it's a convention of choice, and the ~ is more visually pleasing to me, to begin with. If it were to be addressed on a literal level, I would suggest that an apostrophe be used, as in G'd, as the ' is used to indicate the omission of a letter, as in "don't," etc. I haven't noticed your taking to task those who opt to use the hypen, however. Why not?
You're trying to nail me with literal semantics. I have no idea why. "Thank G~d" is an expression of strong thankfulness and deep gratitude. I say and feel "Thank G~d" for every rescue and every survival I hear of, see on TV, or read about. It's not that complicated. Thanking G~d and "holding G~d responsible" are two different things. I am not of the belief system where G~d is punishing, condemning, or killing some ~ while sparing the lives of others. You've read into what I've written as though that were my belief. Would you have felt better if I'd have said, "Damn! Why an animal, and not a human, that lived!?!" It's not a matter of "want[ing] to think about that." Spared may not have been the ideal, most perfect word. I could have been more accurate by saying, "I'm so glad the animals lived," but then that still leaves room for some [in this case,you] to say, "So, you're glad the 117,000 died?" I know how I stand. Why you're being so petty, however, is beyond me.
~ Elizabeth
As for the literal meaning of the ~ : " . . . as it replicates more for me the figure 8 . . . " ~ it is with my imagination that I fill in the gaps that would be solid in the 8. A sine wave is fine with me, too. I'm not sure what a sine wave is, however, sound waves remind me of eternity, and the ~ reminds me of sound waves, as well. It also resembles a 'heat' wave, one that's seen 'hovering' just above hot pavement in the summer desert. It, likewise, resembles a water wave. Many aspects of nature ['eternity'] can be seen in it. There are few straight lines in nature. I have not held myself to a strict standard for the common/specific usage of the ~ sign, just as those who use the - are not doing. AS far as I'm aware, it's a convention of choice, and the ~ is more visually pleasing to me, to begin with. If it were to be addressed on a literal level, I would suggest that an apostrophe be used, as in G'd, as the ' is used to indicate the omission of a letter, as in "don't," etc. I haven't noticed your taking to task those who opt to use the hypen, however. Why not?
You're trying to nail me with literal semantics. I have no idea why. "Thank G~d" is an expression of strong thankfulness and deep gratitude. I say and feel "Thank G~d" for every rescue and every survival I hear of, see on TV, or read about. It's not that complicated. Thanking G~d and "holding G~d responsible" are two different things. I am not of the belief system where G~d is punishing, condemning, or killing some ~ while sparing the lives of others. You've read into what I've written as though that were my belief. Would you have felt better if I'd have said, "Damn! Why an animal, and not a human, that lived!?!" It's not a matter of "want[ing] to think about that." Spared may not have been the ideal, most perfect word. I could have been more accurate by saying, "I'm so glad the animals lived," but then that still leaves room for some [in this case,you] to say, "So, you're glad the 117,000 died?" I know how I stand. Why you're being so petty, however, is beyond me.
~ Elizabeth
O Lord, why do you cast me off?
Why do you hide your face from me?
Wretched and close to death from my youth up,
I suffer your terrors; I am desperate. Psalm 88:14,15.
Dear Lizzytysh,
Lightning may not have been very diplomatic about it but she raises an important question (a question all thinking and compassionate people struggle with) regarding the tsunami catastrophe and any other evil that destroys lives. A horror such as the people of India, Indonesia, Thailand and Africa have experienced will always raise this hard question. "Where was God?" If God is all-powerful and all-good why is there so much death and despair and evil in the world? I am rereading C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain where he recounts his struggle with this question. He states it like this:
"If God were good, He would wish to make His creatures perfectly happy, and if God were almighty He would be able to do what He wished. But the creatures are not happy. Therefore God lacks either goodness, or power, or both."
I realize theological debates do not help in times like this. You must weep with those who weep. But at some point I hope you can pick up a copy of this book. It is a Christian perspective of course, so may be suspect to some. But it is well worth the time and effort.
On a side note, I noticed where the British have contributed more than 25 million pounds to the rescue effort. I hope all in the USA will find a reputable agency to contribute to. Doctors Without Borders is a good one but there are many others.
Mark
Why do you hide your face from me?
Wretched and close to death from my youth up,
I suffer your terrors; I am desperate. Psalm 88:14,15.
Dear Lizzytysh,
Lightning may not have been very diplomatic about it but she raises an important question (a question all thinking and compassionate people struggle with) regarding the tsunami catastrophe and any other evil that destroys lives. A horror such as the people of India, Indonesia, Thailand and Africa have experienced will always raise this hard question. "Where was God?" If God is all-powerful and all-good why is there so much death and despair and evil in the world? I am rereading C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain where he recounts his struggle with this question. He states it like this:
"If God were good, He would wish to make His creatures perfectly happy, and if God were almighty He would be able to do what He wished. But the creatures are not happy. Therefore God lacks either goodness, or power, or both."
I realize theological debates do not help in times like this. You must weep with those who weep. But at some point I hope you can pick up a copy of this book. It is a Christian perspective of course, so may be suspect to some. But it is well worth the time and effort.
On a side note, I noticed where the British have contributed more than 25 million pounds to the rescue effort. I hope all in the USA will find a reputable agency to contribute to. Doctors Without Borders is a good one but there are many others.
Mark
For those who believe in an all powerful God or creator I think we must also realise that He created mankind to be higher beings having more powers of reason and free will than the basic instincts of survival awarded to lower animals. From early times there are stories of catastrophes in the world, and punishment. If God allowed us perfect happiness and no need for struggle then we would be little more than playthings for His amusement. Maybe there is a reason why such disasters happen. It certainly makes us focus on what is important in this world and at times like this to work together to make a difference instead of pursuing our own, sometimes more selfish goals.
Current news shows that ordinary people and their governments are being very generous in their donations all around the world and a huge effort is under way. In Sri Lanka today there is a day of mourning and multi-faith services are being held with Buddhists, Christians, Muslims and Hindus all praying together. Perhaps having to suffer and deal with such tragedy helps make mankind into better people.
Current news shows that ordinary people and their governments are being very generous in their donations all around the world and a huge effort is under way. In Sri Lanka today there is a day of mourning and multi-faith services are being held with Buddhists, Christians, Muslims and Hindus all praying together. Perhaps having to suffer and deal with such tragedy helps make mankind into better people.
Both Google and nature.com have excellent features on how we can help the victims, a list of charities to donate to incuding the Salvation Army.
http://www.google.com/tsunami_relief.html
This is more important to focus on right now than eternal metaphysical questions. The use of the tilde (~) in failing to spell out "God" looks to me like a little snake, the one that caused trouble in a garden a long mythological time ago, as if to include that energy in a concept of the Deity. ( "De~ty"?)
http://www.google.com/tsunami_relief.html
This is more important to focus on right now than eternal metaphysical questions. The use of the tilde (~) in failing to spell out "God" looks to me like a little snake, the one that caused trouble in a garden a long mythological time ago, as if to include that energy in a concept of the Deity. ( "De~ty"?)
It is the strength of nature the force and magnitude of the elements. The trouble is we should be more in awe of these forces the damage and destruction just one anomaly can cause is disastrous. The earth has moved on its axis and we are slowly destroying the planet. One of the islands in the Indian Ocean has split in two. There are greater powers at work than the creatures that live on this earth and I am not talking about God I don't believe in God. The earth is only on loan to us. Nature is the force that rules our planet and we would be well advised to nurture it rather than decimate it
Almost everywhere I have been over the last few days there have been collections pubs, clubs etc. I hope the people get the benefit sooner rather than later.
Almost everywhere I have been over the last few days there have been collections pubs, clubs etc. I hope the people get the benefit sooner rather than later.
Last edited by Paula on Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.