Discussion on Cohen's poetry

[Critic2]

on the LC newsgroup there is a decent thread about the quality of Leonard's poetry. This is a post from Colin Ward whom, some of you may know, runs the excellent Egoless poetry site-


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On 26 Dec 2004 00:33:31 -0800, feardevil420@yahoo.com wrote:

>C. wrote:
>>
>> Canada has a similar poet / song writer that enjoys popularity far
>> beyond his skill. I read Leonard Cohen's words, and it is obvious to
>me
>> that he says to himself prior to writing "Now, what words can I use
>in
>> combinations to sound really intellectual and mysteriously deep..." I
>> think his stuff is the worst type of phoney intellectualism around,
>> but, loads of people have bought into it. What is infinitely worse is
>> some idiot told him he could sing...and the CBC often plays him
>> croaking through those terrible words way off key. His most "famous"
>> song "Suzanne":
>>

[full version inserted:]

Suzanne takes you down to her place near the river
You can hear the boats go by
You can spend the night beside her
And you know that she's half crazy
But that's why you want to be there
And she feeds you tea and oranges
That come all the way from China
And just when you mean to tell her
That you have no love to give her
Then she gets you on her wavelength
And she lets the river answer
That you've always been her lover
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that she will trust you
For you've touched her perfect body with your mind.

And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
And you want to travel with him
And you want to travel blind
And you think maybe you'll trust him
For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

Now Suzanne takes your hand
And she leads you to the river
She is wearing rags and feathers
From Salvation Army counters
And the sun pours down like honey
On Our Lady of the Harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that you can trust her
For she's touched your perfect body with her mind.

>> "She gets you on her wavelength"????? "Touched her perfect body
>with
>> your mind"???????...gawd.... and yet, he's rich off this stuff...
>
>It does seem to look sort of bad on paper, and, no doubt, if I'd
>written and posted it, it's obvious the reactions I'd get.

This depends on where you posted it. If you presented
song lyrics here, to be regarded as poetry, yes, your work
would undoubtedly be ridiculed. Apples make poor oranges.
If you posted work of this calibre to a song lyrics venue,
though, you would be heralded as one of the two or three
greatest English-language lyricist of your time.

>But, Colin Ward's gone on record as naming Leonard Cohen as one who
>does this sort of thing *right*. Colin, how about pointing out where
>the work of the highly respected Leonard Cohen is *right*, where the
>others of us are *wrong*?

Leaving aside the dubious nature of any comparison between
poems and lyrics, this becomes a fair question. I'd like to
preface my remarks by saying that "Suzanne" may not have been
my choice as the best example of the poetry in Cohen's songs
but it will do. Bear in mind, too, that we don't judge artists
by their lesser works (or by single clunking lines within works).
I'm sure that few of us would think of John Prine in terms of
"German Afternoons". Dylan's fans won't hold "Planet Waves"
against him; his later works are a far cry from his earlier ones
but, at least, are not the earsores that we hear from Prine or
Cohen lately. And, yes, Cohen does write actual poetry (e.g.
"Flowers for Hitler", "Book of Mercy" and "Selected Poems,
1956-1968"), prose (i.e. "Beautiful Losers" and "The Favourite
Game") and songs. As per your query, we will limit our discussion
to his songs or, more accurately, the poetry in his song lyrics.
In doing so we take our watch phrase from Sir Winston Churchill:
"Any idiot can see what's wrong, but can you see what's right?"

I agree that a novice could easily come up with a trite phrase
such as "she gets you on her wavelength", although that may be more
likely now than when Suzanne was written. "Touched her perfect body
with your mind" is hardly inspiring (choruses often aren't); it
merely feeds into the thematic "sank beneath your wisdom like a
stone" line later. To say that these lines would strain the
tolerances of poetry readers would be understatement.

Lines that we would likely NOT see from a novice may include:

And she lets the river answer
That you've always been her lover

In the unlikely event that we did, the novice would forget
to set up the mention of the river with L2-L3 or to prepare
"always been her lover" with L4-L10. In essence, then, what we
may see Cohen as doing badly (by poetry standards, remember) a
neophyte would unwittingly neglect to do at all.

I would also not expect to see a newcomer produce the "Jesus
was a sailor" metaphor that makes up the second stanza.

I would not expect a rookie to produce the subtle irony of
the grandiose-sounding "Our Lady of the Harbour" "wearing rags
and feathers from Salvation Army counters". Hell, I'd be surprised
if many of them would recognize it *as readers or listeners*.

Like the proverbial 100 monkeys with typewriters, I concede
that it is possible that a raw poet might come up with an image
like "heroes in the seaweed" but, in my years on Usenet and in
live and web-based critical forums I haven't seen it happen yet.

Bottom line: we'll see more poetry in a single Cohen song
than on us.arts.poetry in a year.

Maybe a decade.

Maybe a lifetime.

>Don't get me wrong, I've always loved Cohen's work... and would like an
>expert on poetry to explain what puts LC at the top... are you there,
>Colin?

Let me assure you that it isn't false modesty talking when
I point out that neither my knowledge nor my credentials would
qualify me as a "poetry expert". Nevertheless, I, like those who
are, will get a laugh out of the mischaracterization. As I've
said before, in Doonesbury terms I am "just a French major from
the Bronx".

Reading a few primers, a few hundred articles and a few
thousand poems won't make anyone an expert. Doing so and coming
to us.arts.poety might make them appear as one, though.

There is only one context in which I can claim any expertise.
I may be the world's leading authority on bad poetry. I not only
write it, I'll bet that I read more of it than anyone else on the
planet. How many can say that they have read every poem posted
to Zoetrope, PFFA's General/C&C and Usenet over the last six years?
How many can say that they've read all of Will Dockery's "work"?
Or would admit it if they had?

Will:

Study Cohen's early work in general and, perhaps, this one
in particular. Note how the images relate to the central theme
of that stanza and how the two subthemes (Jesus and Suzanne) are
related. Then check out the far more uneven "Stories of the
Street" for an example that may be closer to your tastes. Note
how the consistent attention to storyline within each stanza
avoids the scattered, self-conscious, frustratingly incoherent
"toke-a-bong sing-a-song" effect of your own attempts.

Insofar as having "the balls to put my poetry...out" is
concerned, unwitting victims of lightning haven't shown courage
per se. As long as you remain blissfully unaware of how devoid
of poetry your work is you can claim no valour in its display.
Ignorance, naïveté and arrogance, yes, but certainly not bravery.

Poetman:

In the unlikely event that anyone ever called Leonard Cohen
a singer he, himself, would have corrected them--as he did with
the rebuke: "If you want singing go to the Met!"

Next you'll tell us that Louis Armstrong couldn't sing.

[cue Rob Evans]

Best regards,

Colin

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."

- from "Anthem" by Leonard Cohen