Hi Kush,
I see what you mean with the similarity to Cohen's way of expressing things. Very graphic image......I even, instantly, pictured colours and types of threads.
Agreeing to disagree works for me! Won't be the first nor the last ~ and has plenty of merit. The "spirit" to which I refer is her spiritual self that is more interested in unconditional love, forgiveness, acceptance ~ and gratitude for what she is able to count her blessings. The spiritual self that somehow manages to rise above it all and offer a bouquet of flowers.
It has nothing to do with intellect or skills, but heart and spirit. To deal with one's enemies in this fashion requires the highest form of spirituality.
All good things,
Lizzytysh
Tunes and Flowers.
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Andrew McGeever
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- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
lDear Kush and Elizabeth, there are several points to be addressed re your recent correspondence. Can I firstly comment on the "dedication" issue?
When I offered "Tunes and Flowers" on this message board, I said it was dedicated to Anne Frank, though her name does not appear in the body of the text, i.e. there is no direct reference . To date, I have written three poems which have a dedication ( always under the title).
They are ..."Mythologies and Oranges" (for Leonard Cohen)....."Bird" (for Charles Christopher Parker 1920-1954).....and "Blue" (for Brian Wilson).
There have been many occasions when I've declared ,"and this one's dedicated to....". and proceeded to read the poem, but WRITING preambles , especially on a message board, can cause confusion and deflect the reader from the subject .
I must be more careful in future.
Andrew.
P.S. Is it worthwhile to offer "Bird" or "Blue" on this board? At least readers may criticise the TEXT, having had an insight via the written "dedication".
P.P.S. Kush, can I ask you about your signature, "Go Cry Like Men"?
I'd like to you to explain that one to me, and if you do , please accept my open arms to discuss Jaques Brel !!
When I offered "Tunes and Flowers" on this message board, I said it was dedicated to Anne Frank, though her name does not appear in the body of the text, i.e. there is no direct reference . To date, I have written three poems which have a dedication ( always under the title).
They are ..."Mythologies and Oranges" (for Leonard Cohen)....."Bird" (for Charles Christopher Parker 1920-1954).....and "Blue" (for Brian Wilson).
There have been many occasions when I've declared ,"and this one's dedicated to....". and proceeded to read the poem, but WRITING preambles , especially on a message board, can cause confusion and deflect the reader from the subject .
I must be more careful in future.
Andrew.
P.S. Is it worthwhile to offer "Bird" or "Blue" on this board? At least readers may criticise the TEXT, having had an insight via the written "dedication".
P.P.S. Kush, can I ask you about your signature, "Go Cry Like Men"?
I'd like to you to explain that one to me, and if you do , please accept my open arms to discuss Jaques Brel !!
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
Re the setting of "Tunes and Flowers", I was informed today that the poem will be carved into the granite on which the plaque was supposed to be placed. The head of Building Works, Nigel Taylor, explained his reasons ; something to with glue and posterity. The exact position of the plinth, in relation to the statue, was also agreed.
The monumental sculptors are working on it now, and all will be in place before October 26th....the day to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Battle of El Alamein.
I read this weekend that Col. Gadhaffi has allowed the "Desert Rats" to build a memorial in Tripoli, beside the graves of over 15 thousand allied soldiers who died in that campaign. Politics is a strange business; it shifts like sand in a North African desert, yet blood bonds better with oil than sand.
Andrew McGeever.
The monumental sculptors are working on it now, and all will be in place before October 26th....the day to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Battle of El Alamein.
I read this weekend that Col. Gadhaffi has allowed the "Desert Rats" to build a memorial in Tripoli, beside the graves of over 15 thousand allied soldiers who died in that campaign. Politics is a strange business; it shifts like sand in a North African desert, yet blood bonds better with oil than sand.
Andrew McGeever.
The "Desert Rats"? Who are they, Andrew?
It sounds like your poem's memorial setting is progressing well.
I used to have 8-10 Charlie ["The Bird"] Parker albums in the mid-late sixties. A jazz musician acquaintance borrowed them all and never returned them ~ imagine!
That was one "borrowing," with which I've always felt at peace, believing they moved into the hands for which they were meant. I believe that sometimes we're positioned into particular places for specific reasons. I would be interested in reading your poem on Charlie.
All good things,
Lizzytysh
It sounds like your poem's memorial setting is progressing well.
I used to have 8-10 Charlie ["The Bird"] Parker albums in the mid-late sixties. A jazz musician acquaintance borrowed them all and never returned them ~ imagine!
That was one "borrowing," with which I've always felt at peace, believing they moved into the hands for which they were meant. I believe that sometimes we're positioned into particular places for specific reasons. I would be interested in reading your poem on Charlie.All good things,
Lizzytysh
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
The "Desert Rats" was a nickname given to the allied forces who fought in the North African campaign in 1942-43.
Until then, Hitler had won every battle. After El Alamein he lost the lot. Some historians argue that El Alamein was the turning point : I'm not an expert on matters of war and don't keep a score on how many millions were killed between 1939 to 1945, but let's settle for 50 million, of whom 20 million were Russian, 6 million Jewish..and we're more than half way there. Most victims, as in all wars, were non combatants.
This is a poetry forum , and I am mindful of the parameters ; but why the lack of interest about poetry of the Second World War? It's not that it wasn't written (I have wonderful poems by Hamish Henderson, and others from those in the frontline), but maybe it's time to hear poetry from today's "Partisans".
The list is endless....
Oh yes, they write poetry in Iraq, Angola, Columbia, Northern Ireland, and even Los Angeles.
Andrew.
P.S. Re Charlie Parker, I'm not sure I want to post " Bird" on this message board. "Bird" has more flaws than "Mythologies and Oranges", and I don't want this message board to descend into the lowest common denominator of cheap,lazy verse which poses for poetry. It seems to be going that way.....shut up, Andrew......
P.S. I like "Bird". It's worth reading.
Until then, Hitler had won every battle. After El Alamein he lost the lot. Some historians argue that El Alamein was the turning point : I'm not an expert on matters of war and don't keep a score on how many millions were killed between 1939 to 1945, but let's settle for 50 million, of whom 20 million were Russian, 6 million Jewish..and we're more than half way there. Most victims, as in all wars, were non combatants.
This is a poetry forum , and I am mindful of the parameters ; but why the lack of interest about poetry of the Second World War? It's not that it wasn't written (I have wonderful poems by Hamish Henderson, and others from those in the frontline), but maybe it's time to hear poetry from today's "Partisans".
The list is endless....
Oh yes, they write poetry in Iraq, Angola, Columbia, Northern Ireland, and even Los Angeles.
Andrew.
P.S. Re Charlie Parker, I'm not sure I want to post " Bird" on this message board. "Bird" has more flaws than "Mythologies and Oranges", and I don't want this message board to descend into the lowest common denominator of cheap,lazy verse which poses for poetry. It seems to be going that way.....shut up, Andrew......
P.S. I like "Bird". It's worth reading.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
I don't reply to my own posts, but can I make an exception?
The P.S. could easily be construed as insulting to the Poetry Forum members, and their offerings on this board. If anyone has taken offence from my ill-considered remarks, please accept my unreserved apologies.
That post came at the end of a particularly miserable day, and I was lashing out. That is no excuse:there are none.
I did write "shut up, Andrew". It's a pity I didn't take my own advice.
Yours, Andrew.
The P.S. could easily be construed as insulting to the Poetry Forum members, and their offerings on this board. If anyone has taken offence from my ill-considered remarks, please accept my unreserved apologies.
That post came at the end of a particularly miserable day, and I was lashing out. That is no excuse:there are none.
I did write "shut up, Andrew". It's a pity I didn't take my own advice.
Yours, Andrew.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
I received two pieces of news this weekend re "Tunes and Flowers".
Perth Council are inviting my father to be a V.I.P. at the ceremony on October 26th, when the poem is unveilled: he'll get the full treatment, be at the head of the march, escort, drinks, lunch, the lot. That was part of my hidden agenda for that day, and he's delighted. He told me "well, you've done all the spadework, Andrew". I replied "no, Dad, YOU did it between 1939 and 1945!".
The other news filled me with sadness: my father informed me of the death of Charlie Framp, one of his Black Watch comrades during the war. They hadn't met up since the end of the war, though they had corresponded by mail and phone. Charlie was an incredible human being: a self-taught working class activist, writer of a wonderful autobiography "Under A Crimson Sky"(I am privileged to have a signed copy), a loving husband and father, and a poet. We corresponded by phone and mail, shared our poetry, our opinions, our passions. Charlie wrote most of his poetry between 1942 and 1945 while in "active service", i.e. getting bombed. He was wounded no less than five times, and retained bits of shrapnel in his body. He, like my father, was someone whom Hitler couldn't finish off, though not for lack of trying.
Charlie was the other half of my hidden agenda: he told me he couldn't make it up to Perth on the 26th because of his arthritis, although he'd dearly love to see my father again. I said I'd fly him up to Scotland and arrange transport from the airport, but promise not to tell my father!
I know I could have got Charlie there (his wife was in on the plan!).
To all readers on this board, you can be assured that when I read "Tunes and Flowers" at the ceremony, Charlie Framp will be there, in spirit, in my father's heart, in the poem.
Andrew.
Perth Council are inviting my father to be a V.I.P. at the ceremony on October 26th, when the poem is unveilled: he'll get the full treatment, be at the head of the march, escort, drinks, lunch, the lot. That was part of my hidden agenda for that day, and he's delighted. He told me "well, you've done all the spadework, Andrew". I replied "no, Dad, YOU did it between 1939 and 1945!".
The other news filled me with sadness: my father informed me of the death of Charlie Framp, one of his Black Watch comrades during the war. They hadn't met up since the end of the war, though they had corresponded by mail and phone. Charlie was an incredible human being: a self-taught working class activist, writer of a wonderful autobiography "Under A Crimson Sky"(I am privileged to have a signed copy), a loving husband and father, and a poet. We corresponded by phone and mail, shared our poetry, our opinions, our passions. Charlie wrote most of his poetry between 1942 and 1945 while in "active service", i.e. getting bombed. He was wounded no less than five times, and retained bits of shrapnel in his body. He, like my father, was someone whom Hitler couldn't finish off, though not for lack of trying.
Charlie was the other half of my hidden agenda: he told me he couldn't make it up to Perth on the 26th because of his arthritis, although he'd dearly love to see my father again. I said I'd fly him up to Scotland and arrange transport from the airport, but promise not to tell my father!
I know I could have got Charlie there (his wife was in on the plan!).
To all readers on this board, you can be assured that when I read "Tunes and Flowers" at the ceremony, Charlie Framp will be there, in spirit, in my father's heart, in the poem.
Andrew.
Hi Andrew,
You used the word poignant in regard to Paula's sharing regarding her daughter's attendance with her to see Leonard and her daughter's response to him. Poignant is the best word to fit this post of yours.
I'm pleased to hear about your father's attendance and the level of inclusion he's receiving. I also feel that it's very sad that during a ceremony commemorating such a symbolic statue, poem, and real-life, intense experience for them, that your father's and your, dear friend [who sounds like he made his life very worthwhile] has died premature ~ yet so close ~ to the ceremony itself. It sounds like a significant loss for both of you. Your heart was in the right place for getting him there ~ and his attendance will now be on a different level. Your and your father's day will be all the more poignant as a result. I hope it goes well for you both. I know your words to your Dad went straight to his heart and were deeply appreciated. One of those moments in a father-son relationship. With the ceremony and dedication, I'm imagining him beaming with pride all day and into the night.
All good things,
Lizzytysh
You used the word poignant in regard to Paula's sharing regarding her daughter's attendance with her to see Leonard and her daughter's response to him. Poignant is the best word to fit this post of yours.
I'm pleased to hear about your father's attendance and the level of inclusion he's receiving. I also feel that it's very sad that during a ceremony commemorating such a symbolic statue, poem, and real-life, intense experience for them, that your father's and your, dear friend [who sounds like he made his life very worthwhile] has died premature ~ yet so close ~ to the ceremony itself. It sounds like a significant loss for both of you. Your heart was in the right place for getting him there ~ and his attendance will now be on a different level. Your and your father's day will be all the more poignant as a result. I hope it goes well for you both. I know your words to your Dad went straight to his heart and were deeply appreciated. One of those moments in a father-son relationship. With the ceremony and dedication, I'm imagining him beaming with pride all day and into the night.
All good things,
Lizzytysh
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
Dear Elizabeth,
Thankyou for your kind reply to my post. I visited my father yesterday: I told him of my plan to get Charlie up to Perth for the ceremony. I don't see my father crying often.
Leonard's "The Partisan" is being played as I write: my father and Charlie got to know some of the Italian partisans. Leonard learned the song from "The People's Songbook" while on a summer holiday camp in Quebec in 1949. Those partisans were French.
Andrew.
Thankyou for your kind reply to my post. I visited my father yesterday: I told him of my plan to get Charlie up to Perth for the ceremony. I don't see my father crying often.
Leonard's "The Partisan" is being played as I write: my father and Charlie got to know some of the Italian partisans. Leonard learned the song from "The People's Songbook" while on a summer holiday camp in Quebec in 1949. Those partisans were French.
Andrew.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
Dear Elizabeth,
You use so many adjectives: I'm thinking more of "difficult".
Was it you who used the term "bragging rights" in one of your many recent postings? I have nothing to brag about. But I am writing again, after a gap of six months: three poems (in free verse), and I'm also reading.
October 26th will be a day to get through, but the poem belongs in Holland, its resting place: that's my next task.
It's straightforward; there are no "guessing games"(sic) .
Yours, Andrew.
You use so many adjectives: I'm thinking more of "difficult".
Was it you who used the term "bragging rights" in one of your many recent postings? I have nothing to brag about. But I am writing again, after a gap of six months: three poems (in free verse), and I'm also reading.
October 26th will be a day to get through, but the poem belongs in Holland, its resting place: that's my next task.
It's straightforward; there are no "guessing games"(sic) .
Yours, Andrew.
Hi Andrew,
It's your day, so your perceptions will be what matter most and will be most accurate. I can only imagine the dynamics. You're the one experiencing them. However, the three adjectives were all used intentionally, for different aspects [in my imagination]. Difficult would also be added to my list. Hopefully, it will go beyond that, however.
Bragging rights is a phrase that doesn't necessarily mean you're literally bragging, only that the accomplishment is worthy and that you would be entitled to, if you so chose.
~Lizzytysh
It's your day, so your perceptions will be what matter most and will be most accurate. I can only imagine the dynamics. You're the one experiencing them. However, the three adjectives were all used intentionally, for different aspects [in my imagination]. Difficult would also be added to my list. Hopefully, it will go beyond that, however.
Bragging rights is a phrase that doesn't necessarily mean you're literally bragging, only that the accomplishment is worthy and that you would be entitled to, if you so chose.
~Lizzytysh
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
I don't know how to salute.I'm saying this because my father and I will be placed on a "saluting dias" (sic),along with the great and the good on October 26th. Oh yes, I will read "Tunes and Flowers" after the unveilling and speeches. What makes me nervous is others' perceptions of my role.
Unlike the marchers, men whose polished medals will gleam in the darkness of memory, I haven't killed nor tried to.
"Field Commander McGeever"? That has to be a joke.
Andrew.
P.S. When I was a child, I recall saluting a flag. We were told to do it; didn't ask why. Nobody explained at the time . They never do.
Unlike the marchers, men whose polished medals will gleam in the darkness of memory, I haven't killed nor tried to.
"Field Commander McGeever"? That has to be a joke.
Andrew.
P.S. When I was a child, I recall saluting a flag. We were told to do it; didn't ask why. Nobody explained at the time . They never do.
I guess in a sense you could feel "unworthy," lacking the medals and battle scars. Yet, those who have them, also need to know that what they've done and been through is appreciated by those who didn't go. I see your role as one of a poet acknowledging their sacrifices and their pain. There are soldiers who have come home to only ridicule. I've known some of them personally. They would much prefer being honoured through a poem. Your salutes will be perceived as endearing. It is strange how many givens we are "given" [shall we say dictated?], without explanation, when we are young.[/i]