should lesbians adopt children?

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:57 pm

Tolerance is a double-edged sword Ep you can't champion tolorance on the one hand and throw a tirade of abuse at people who disagree with your views.

No matter how you package your views there will always be people who have differing views. Tolerance is at least trying to see the other persons view point.

There are loads of people who disagree with same sex couples adopting for a variety of reasons.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:09 pm

Right! And sometimes for really good reasons.

Wathever gay or straight, (or whathever other differences) people could do child abuse.

To be born gay do not made one worst than others, and not better. Sorry.

Well, certainly the degree of maturity should by high enough to recognize first that we, as an individual are not an almighty little god that can not not be perfect in itself, and that all the problems of the world lay on bad others that are not acting accordingly.

Ep, your messages are the most violent and intolerant that I have read in this thread. I understood (I suppose) that you have been hurt and you are mad about injustice done to gay people. I do not see how it empowers you to apply the lex talionis (to demand and eye for and eye).

I say againg, this politically correct thing is the biggest stupidity I have ever experienced. The day we will really accept people as they are, we will not need to "act as if", to think or to have other to think that a certain group is just "good" in and out, is a form of hypocrisy and intolerance.

One could do a little fit once in a while, but now, please stop that. This is disagreeable. I mean stop yelling and just say what you have to say.

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:49 pm

Tchoc-My first question is how you came to see my post as "violent?"
Also, in my original post I do not remember mentioning "tolerance."
I personally tend to not tolerate racism, sexism, discrimination ect...
I feel inclined to speak out against these mindsets.
"Eye for an eye?" I wish you would please explain that...
Should we all just walk around in silent "tolerance" of right and wrong?

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:43 pm

I saw a movie one time - a historical epic set in Russia called Sunshine where the main character a young judge (Ralph Fiennes) loses control at one point and shouts to his wife in the middle of a discussion

"I have to deal with a brother who wants to turn the world upside down and with a father who wants to keep it exactly as it is....and you expect me to keep calm" ....somehow this thread reminded me of that.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:00 am

Ep, here this is just a discussion.

On the net to write in capital letters is to shout at people. No need to shout here, so this is a form of violence. A mild form of it, yes.

Furthermore, coarse expressions may be a pretty good outlet for exasperation, and sometimes, yes, the reality is vulgar, and crude words are depicting only a sad stinking reality.

But people you are dealing with, here, are respectful to you, so I don't see why they should be splat like this in a discussion. So for me, this is another form of violence.

May I suggest that you go in the poetry section where poetic licence allows you to express yourself exactly in the way of your bare feelings?

The lex talionis? Pfff.... This is in the Bible. Maybe Sandra or an other religious person could tell you where exactly. For me I do not want to go into to deep and complicated explanations about this or anything else, here, sorry.

Kush, this guy is on the slope to the burn-out. Refer it to the therapy group of You-know-who.

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:20 am

Tchoc- My use of CAPS was intended to emphasize. Shouting into the apparently empty ballroom of cyber-space was not my plan.

If a heterosexual man were to attend too many "gay pride" parades is he running the risk of ending up gay?

I will repeat my question from earlier; is it best to just walk around in silent "tolerance" of right and wrong?

In the US, civil liberties are being tossed to the side in the name of protection. Should this tolerated? The proverbial "line in the sand" disappears after being crossed the first time. What comes next?

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:56 pm

Ep, perhaps you could use italics or bold text to add emphasis. Using capitals is a widely accepted convention for shouting online.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:38 pm

Lingmag, that’s it. It’s a convention.

Or corlor red and/or underlined corlor red or

many different
colours could be used also this is fun.

OK. Stop.

Ep, I agree that in some cases to remain silent is not to be neutral, to remain silent is to facilitate or acknowledge the agressor's activities and
I was not exactly telling you to "shut up" if you noticed.

I do not want to made a guru out of Cohen (he himself did not want to be the successor of his Japanese Zen Master, if I understand - and if this is false, please correct me), but very soon he said, among monsters manifestations for peace (and love), that it is better to be peaceful than to eltered skeltered the world in violence in the name of peace (and love). Once, during a concert under the stars, (another Woodstock style concert) he did calm a pretty well very bad vandalism mouvement on the site, just he on the stage, his soft voice and his guitar.

So my point was, if you want to be accepted by the society, maybe the better way is to be yourself, first, socially acceptable in your conctact with other people and also accept that other can be different from you without having fear or disguts for their differences. Especially people who are not deny your right to be different from them, like in this discussion.

OK. Stop again. Take care.

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:46 pm

Tchocolatl.....I don´t think I am a religious person I am rather a spiritual person. I do go to church sometimes just to hear God´s word.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:38 pm

OK, Sandra, I understand.

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:41 pm

At what point did I suggest violence?

Can someone please tell me how to whisper online...

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:01 pm

Hi Ep ~

How about "[spoken softly]"; "[in a soft voice]"; or "[in a whisper]"?

~ Lizzy

Cia · Post by **Cia** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:25 pm

Ep, I for my part like it when people speak out loud and clear. No need for whispering.

hugs from Cia

BIG HUGS!

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:21 pm

The "I'm-a-victim" game bores me to death. Please try to understand quickly what I said or continue this game without me.

Don't even send my a PM on this one.

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:19 pm

Thanks Tchoc- Because of your kind words, which by the way, were somehow completely devoid of pretension, I have learned to compromise my values while still believing that I maintain them. I will mollify my conscience and put up with the oppressive nature of my church because, well, Jesus did say a lot of good things (love your enemy), and so what if the money I put in the plate goes to a woman hating organization. I will say nothing when people speak in coded racist, sexist terms because I know that I don't feel this way. But let me lock my front door just in case...

Pfff... Please man.