Well, Sue, Cohen recorded two songs in French, as you must know, "The Partisan", and "Un Canadien errant". His accent is so-so, though he forces it in the latter song, to immitate the cajun accent, the theme of this traditional song being the forced southern deportation of French communities that were established in Acadie. As the philosopher said, every statement contains its'own contradiction, and you see here that Cohen did have an interest in the French problematic. He does manage to converse in French, with a command I'd describe as being well above the average of English-speaking Canadians. I think that he was more prone to do so publicly years ago, before he got somewhat tired of Montreal's langage-culture-sociological issues... I guess that he might have gotten weary of the implicit sollicitations, coming from both persuasions, he must have received to fill shoes that were too rigid for him.
Nico.
Is Leonard Cohen less than 5 feet tall?
Whew!!!!
Luna -- all I can say to your comments is that yes, Leonard has long exhibited a fascination with totalitarian control that some find disturbing; at times, so have I. Even as early as "The Favorite Game" which was, of course, based at least partly on his own early years, his protagonist Breavman and his friends play Nazi torture games, and they fantasize about controlling crowds through mass hypnosis. Breavman also hypnotizes a maid and fondles her -- an act that would be [rightly] considered sexual harrassment, if not a form of rape, today.
And certainly the lyric examples you cite are accurate, and one could cite many more examples from his songs, poems, and prose. On the other hand, he's also made statements that are decidedly anti-war, and many of his works are rife with compassion for the homeless, the downtrodden, "the real ones who are burning," etc. ...
In other words, he's one difficult sucker to pin down! All of which makes him, in my opinion, a challenging, courageous, and provocative poet.
It's probably too complex an issue to delve into here, but I've always considered his putative embrace of authoritarian practices (including, at least arguably, Zen discipline and traditional Judaism) as representing a component of what one might call his tragic view of this world and the people in it: as fallen, flawed humans we need strict control of some kind, in order to keep us from annihilating ourselves and each other. This control might come from within --as in the case of a well-disciplined student of a spiritual practice-- or it might be imposed from without.
I'm not saying I agree with or endorse this view; but it's certainly one that many thinkers, theologians, and philsophers have held, and not all of them have been fascistic brutes who endorsed totalitarianism. Even if one differs with it, it still deserves a hearing.
And again, I believe Leonard sees this as a tragic thing, not a good thing --not that this would excuse any personal forays into fascism or totalitariansim, but in fact I am not aware of any such history on Leonard's part. His waffling about Cuba was, in fact, a manifestation of his disillusionment with a movement that he originally believed reperesented freedom and liberation, but came to see otherwise when he experienced it firsthand. At least arguably, his waffling on issues of ethnic politics in Montreal and Israel's military activities might be seen in a similar light.
In any case, it seems clear to me that Leonard does NOT translate his tendency to believe that humans require strict discipline and control into a real-world political view that endorses totalitarianism (what evidence is there that he endorsed or supported Ronald Reagan?). The song "Democracy" (along with his comments on it) would certainly seem, to me, like the work of a man who wants very much to believe that a free, civil society can still work in this world, and that the U.S. --for all its faults-- has the "spiritual thirst" and the historic impetus to just possibly manifest itself as this type of society.
Luna -- all I can say to your comments is that yes, Leonard has long exhibited a fascination with totalitarian control that some find disturbing; at times, so have I. Even as early as "The Favorite Game" which was, of course, based at least partly on his own early years, his protagonist Breavman and his friends play Nazi torture games, and they fantasize about controlling crowds through mass hypnosis. Breavman also hypnotizes a maid and fondles her -- an act that would be [rightly] considered sexual harrassment, if not a form of rape, today.
And certainly the lyric examples you cite are accurate, and one could cite many more examples from his songs, poems, and prose. On the other hand, he's also made statements that are decidedly anti-war, and many of his works are rife with compassion for the homeless, the downtrodden, "the real ones who are burning," etc. ...
In other words, he's one difficult sucker to pin down! All of which makes him, in my opinion, a challenging, courageous, and provocative poet.
It's probably too complex an issue to delve into here, but I've always considered his putative embrace of authoritarian practices (including, at least arguably, Zen discipline and traditional Judaism) as representing a component of what one might call his tragic view of this world and the people in it: as fallen, flawed humans we need strict control of some kind, in order to keep us from annihilating ourselves and each other. This control might come from within --as in the case of a well-disciplined student of a spiritual practice-- or it might be imposed from without.
I'm not saying I agree with or endorse this view; but it's certainly one that many thinkers, theologians, and philsophers have held, and not all of them have been fascistic brutes who endorsed totalitarianism. Even if one differs with it, it still deserves a hearing.
And again, I believe Leonard sees this as a tragic thing, not a good thing --not that this would excuse any personal forays into fascism or totalitariansim, but in fact I am not aware of any such history on Leonard's part. His waffling about Cuba was, in fact, a manifestation of his disillusionment with a movement that he originally believed reperesented freedom and liberation, but came to see otherwise when he experienced it firsthand. At least arguably, his waffling on issues of ethnic politics in Montreal and Israel's military activities might be seen in a similar light.
In any case, it seems clear to me that Leonard does NOT translate his tendency to believe that humans require strict discipline and control into a real-world political view that endorses totalitarianism (what evidence is there that he endorsed or supported Ronald Reagan?). The song "Democracy" (along with his comments on it) would certainly seem, to me, like the work of a man who wants very much to believe that a free, civil society can still work in this world, and that the U.S. --for all its faults-- has the "spiritual thirst" and the historic impetus to just possibly manifest itself as this type of society.
Last edited by David on Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Nothing is said that is not sung."
Height
Re: "I am a dwarf..."
A woman was once quoted as saying, "He acts taller than he is." She indicated that other women had said the same thing.
Since Ann Gilligan is not here to translate that into "guy"-speak, I'm wondering if one of our resident Sisters Of Mercy might be able to help out. What in the WORLD does this mean!?
A woman was once quoted as saying, "He acts taller than he is." She indicated that other women had said the same thing.
Since Ann Gilligan is not here to translate that into "guy"-speak, I'm wondering if one of our resident Sisters Of Mercy might be able to help out. What in the WORLD does this mean!?
"Nothing is said that is not sung."
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Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
Another poet did tend to follow a similar pattern of behaviour some years ago. He saw a country's revolution as a marvelous springboard to a new and exciting era in man's exploration of self determination. He became disillusioned as events unfolded and he saw that those who would free their fellow citizens from servitude, actually created a nightmare from which they themselves could not escape.
The revolution was the French Revolution.
The poet was William Wordsworth.
At least that is how I remember the facts, but I could be wrong, again.
The revolution was the French Revolution.
The poet was William Wordsworth.
At least that is how I remember the facts, but I could be wrong, again.
David ~
A quick, best shot before I go.....I understand exactly what's meant. My only challenge is to verbalize it accurately. With at least our culture valuing height and somehow feeling that if a person is short, they are also somehow diminished. Increased height can create a sense of being "bigger than life" ~ John Wayne-like. In a very literal way, the way a person carries themselves can override a second person's awareness of the first person's actual height, i.e. they seem taller. "I can't believe he's only _____, he seems so much taller!" Self-confidence seems to play into this altered perception a lot. That's all I have time for at the moment, but at least as a beginning, I hope it helps.
~ Elizabeth
A quick, best shot before I go.....I understand exactly what's meant. My only challenge is to verbalize it accurately. With at least our culture valuing height and somehow feeling that if a person is short, they are also somehow diminished. Increased height can create a sense of being "bigger than life" ~ John Wayne-like. In a very literal way, the way a person carries themselves can override a second person's awareness of the first person's actual height, i.e. they seem taller. "I can't believe he's only _____, he seems so much taller!" Self-confidence seems to play into this altered perception a lot. That's all I have time for at the moment, but at least as a beginning, I hope it helps.
~ Elizabeth
acting tall
David,
as a woman I understand the comment made by the lady mentioned. It simply means he is " not backward in coming forward", or has not allowed his lack of height to effect his self confidence in matters of seduction technique.
as a woman I understand the comment made by the lady mentioned. It simply means he is " not backward in coming forward", or has not allowed his lack of height to effect his self confidence in matters of seduction technique.
David ~
I also think of the camera angles Hollywood will use in filming, to cause actors to appear taller, for the perceptional impact of them on screen.
The phrase can also refer to being impressive in any way, self-confidence, knowledge, depth, brilliance, humour, kindness, humility, and many other positive ways, and in addition, I would think the perception of being taller than what they are would apply to the extremes of negativity, as well....a rapist by their victim, Charlie Manson, etc. Fortunately, Leonard's is on the other end of that continuum, and as Margaret has noted, probably included the seduction aspect, as well.....though I don't feel it was restricted to that.
~ Elizabeth
I also think of the camera angles Hollywood will use in filming, to cause actors to appear taller, for the perceptional impact of them on screen.
The phrase can also refer to being impressive in any way, self-confidence, knowledge, depth, brilliance, humour, kindness, humility, and many other positive ways, and in addition, I would think the perception of being taller than what they are would apply to the extremes of negativity, as well....a rapist by their victim, Charlie Manson, etc. Fortunately, Leonard's is on the other end of that continuum, and as Margaret has noted, probably included the seduction aspect, as well.....though I don't feel it was restricted to that.
~ Elizabeth
meaningless notions
All this dialogue re LC's height is a load of horse shite.
As a singer/songwriter he is a monster. There are few who are his equals with poetic skill regardless as to whether one agrees with his 'content' or not. As for his physical dimensions- this is irrelevant to his status as a writer and musician. This is a classic case of obsession with the messenger to the detriment of the message.
Lunamoth, what are your sources for your assertions or is this largely your own opinion of the man via personal deduction?
Regards,
As a singer/songwriter he is a monster. There are few who are his equals with poetic skill regardless as to whether one agrees with his 'content' or not. As for his physical dimensions- this is irrelevant to his status as a writer and musician. This is a classic case of obsession with the messenger to the detriment of the message.
Lunamoth, what are your sources for your assertions or is this largely your own opinion of the man via personal deduction?
Regards,
I think we need the "guest" to show this passport....come on give over. Show yourself!! 
Rocksoff, your sign-in becomes more and more self-explanatory, but maybe you should try building up to something that gets your rocksoff and actually is interesting.
Then again, there were an AWFUL lot of replies including mine...hmmm
Anyway, as a good friend of mine always said, "we're all the same height lying down!"
Rocksoff, your sign-in becomes more and more self-explanatory, but maybe you should try building up to something that gets your rocksoff and actually is interesting.
Then again, there were an AWFUL lot of replies including mine...hmmm
Anyway, as a good friend of mine always said, "we're all the same height lying down!"
That's a good one to remember, Zabka 
. As for Rocksoff, you're so right on his name. However, [pity], unless he's assumed another name [highly unlikely], he's been gone from here for many months . Sorry 'bout the smiles; however, finding redeeming value in what he brought here was quite the challenge [non-Brit's British understatement ].
. As for Rocksoff, you're so right on his name. However, [pity], unless he's assumed another name [highly unlikely], he's been gone from here for many months . Sorry 'bout the smiles; however, finding redeeming value in what he brought here was quite the challenge [non-Brit's British understatement ].Hi Lizzy, Well...that's a relief. To hear that Rocksoff has rocked off elsewhere. 
I just vaguely remmebered Suzanne Vega saying, something like, "I may be tiny on the outside but on the inside I'm a 6'3 quarterback, just like my brother" Perhaps Father Cohen has played in various positions also.
Ha ha...god I'm funny (this is the product of too many coffees and chocky biscuits...and will only end in rebound hypoglycaemia)
I just vaguely remmebered Suzanne Vega saying, something like, "I may be tiny on the outside but on the inside I'm a 6'3 quarterback, just like my brother" Perhaps Father Cohen has played in various positions also.
Ha ha...god I'm funny (this is the product of too many coffees and chocky biscuits...and will only end in rebound hypoglycaemia)
Yes, 'twas a relief when those absurdly inappropriate questions stopped being posted, Zabka. The Vega quote fits, internally for Leonard, and externally for those who know him .
I've given up coffee [AGAIN] ~ we'll see if I can maintain this time.
I've had two half-cups in the past month. I feel soooo much better without it. Even my mornings have improved in their odd way.
.I've given up coffee [AGAIN] ~ we'll see if I can maintain this time.
I've had two half-cups in the past month. I feel soooo much better without it. Even my mornings have improved in their odd way.
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Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
I too have virtually given up coffee. It is addictive and mood changing. The 'lift' is eventually paid for with a dreadful slough, which has to be endured until more coffee is drunk, or, one goes 'cold turkey' to get it out of one's system. I have noticed a marked improvement, physically and mentally, since stopping drinking coffee. To describe its effects, I think that if you imagine you are constantly pushing a vacuum cleaner around that is clogged with dust throughout its pipes and hoses and it struggles to get around the floor, then clean out the whole of the vacuum cleaner's hoses and filters, and experience the profound difference in how much better it feels and sounds, then that for me describes, coming off coffee. Mentally I feel more alert, and physically I do not have the lethargy, which came with the downside of coffee drinking.
Regards. B.
Regards. B.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
That's really well put, Byron. The morning lethargy seems created by the same monster that addresses it. And, oh yes, on how quickly the 'strangeness of being' returns after the coffee starts to wear off. It's been well worth the two-day headache to feel better.
Great description, as well, of my vacuum cleaner
~ tried cleaning the brushes, making sure the hoses are clear, and giving it a new bag. No relevant change . Maybe it's been making coffee at night, after I go to bed 
. Maybe I need to make my house a coffee-free zone.
Great description, as well, of my vacuum cleaner
~ tried cleaning the brushes, making sure the hoses are clear, and giving it a new bag. No relevant change . Maybe it's been making coffee at night, after I go to bed . Maybe I need to make my house a coffee-free zone.