Raining
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Laudably loquacious liquification of the language with lotsa laughs; no lack of "pun(ch) lion" in it at all. 
I’m sorry but I’m not an angel and now I’ll use an unallowed grip. I prefer to divulge personal correspondence but not to be spoken of as a liar.
After that I sent three personal messages to her. All of them were in Russian.
In the first one I gave her my telephone number and offered to talk with me, my mother, grandmother, and my mother’s husband. In the second one I explained why I made that mistake. Also those messages contained various Russian slang words (even obscenities which, I’m sure, no one could find in any dictionary), sayings, quotations from Russian films – such as “Prikljuchenija Buratino” and “Beloje solntse pustyni” [Juliette, that phrase “Za derzhavu obidno” was from the last one.] So I tried to make it clear that it was written by a Russian – in order that her Russian friends could confirm it.
As I received no response I sent third message. And I saved it in my computer since I wasn’t sure, unfortunately, she’d keep her promises. Here is this message. I hope there are some honest Russian-speaking people or those who know this language well, and they’ll say it’s written in Russian and by a Russian.
So I can demonstrate that I’m Russian. If this message wasn’t enough I can write in Russian something more – at any moment.
Unfortunately, I don’t know how I could prove I’ve never posted under the name “Makera”. “Kogda uslyshu eho toj molvy,/ Jedva li uderzhus’ ne razrydat’sja./ Ne to beda, chto otvernjotes’ Vy,/ A to beda, chto mne ne opravdat’sja” – V. Dolina: “When I’ll hear an echo of that rumour,/ I’ll unlikely keep myself from breaking into tears./ The misfortune isn’t that you’ll turn your back on me,/ But the misfortune is that I can’t vindicate myself”. And I don’t know why our messages on the “Buddha” thread looked as the one – if they really did. Actually, I even had some objections regarding the translation of the mantra which was offered by Gennelle. But I saw no need to organize a buddhological conference so I retrained from posting them there.
But I can give you following information (saying with the words from the film “Semnadtsat’ mgnovenij vesny” it’s “informatsija k razmyshleniju”).
1. I registered in 17.09.03. Makera registered in 22.09.03. I don’t think that during this short period somebody could get a wish to express his/her “alternate ego” under another name.
2. When I wanted to say something negative I did it under my own name - for example, that “if you are full of venom, bite your own tale…” to Heretic.
Dear Elizabeth, I ask you again, could you confirm here once again, please, that you know my home address? Could you also call the names of my country and my city? If no one believes me, maybe someone will believe you…
Also I heard some sites/servers have programms that help to determine the location of the computer that connects with server - they determine country and city. Dear Jarkko, if there really are such programms, hasn’t your site something like that? [I think it hasn’t, but who knows]. Could you help me, please?
And there’s only one thing I can’t understand. Who did I offend on this Board and with what? What was a cause of that slander?
Huh, look for the motive and you will find the killer.
Helven.
P. S. I don’t deny I’m a neurotic. I really am. But I’m not a liar.
I received this message from Juliette after PM-d her about Lingvo 8.0, e-dictionary where my English idioms came from.Sorry Helven,
I just can't buy it. I made a bet that you would reply to me on the Forum and that you would make a very noticeable grammatical error in English this time.
You did not disappoint me. "I have never leaved my country."
Please, someone who writes intricate sentences and who has never made a mistake with verbs...writes "leaved"
It isn't just that I have Russian friends who email me...I have studied a little Russian as well. It's your use of articles, prepositions, adverbs and their placement in the sentences that give you away too.
I am willing to be convinced that you live in St. Petersburg and are "native" Russian. If I am wrong I will announce that I am wrong to the entire Forum.
I don't care if you want to masquarade, just don't be surprised if you get busted.
After that I sent three personal messages to her. All of them were in Russian.
In the first one I gave her my telephone number and offered to talk with me, my mother, grandmother, and my mother’s husband. In the second one I explained why I made that mistake. Also those messages contained various Russian slang words (even obscenities which, I’m sure, no one could find in any dictionary), sayings, quotations from Russian films – such as “Prikljuchenija Buratino” and “Beloje solntse pustyni” [Juliette, that phrase “Za derzhavu obidno” was from the last one.] So I tried to make it clear that it was written by a Russian – in order that her Russian friends could confirm it.
As I received no response I sent third message. And I saved it in my computer since I wasn’t sure, unfortunately, she’d keep her promises. Here is this message. I hope there are some honest Russian-speaking people or those who know this language well, and they’ll say it’s written in Russian and by a Russian.
Dear Jarkko, I changed letters for asterisks in the unprintable words. If you’ll ask me I’ll delete these words. But now I’d like to be as convincing as I can.Nu chto zh, poka – ni otveta, ni priveta, ni telefonnogo zvonka…
Znajete chto, milaja moja Dzhul’jetta, jesli Vas dejstvitel’no nikoim obrazom ne volnujet, ne interesujet, ne kolyshet, ne jeb*t [eto maternoje slovo, ne brjaknite, Boga radi, gde-nibud’ v prilichnom obschestve; da i menja prostite za podobnuju vyhodku – soglasites’, Vy sami zhe i vynuzhdajete menja dejstvovat’ podobnym obrasom, demonstriruja znakomstvo s russkoj nenormativnoj leksikoj], jesli Vy “don’t care”, koroche govorja, amerikanka ja ili russkaja, lgun’ja ili chestnyj chelovek, to ne stoilo zatevat’ ves’ etot spectakl’ s publichnym ulichenijem menja vo lzhi. Vprochem, zatejali jego, konechno zhe, ne Vy. No kol’ skoro imenno Vashe soobschenije, soderzha v sebe popytku argumentatsii, okazalos’ chem-to bol’shim, nezheli pustoje goloslovnoje obvinenije, kakije poroj neobdumanno brosajut ljudi v pylu discussii, to i dialog vesti mne prihoditsja imenno s Vami. I, dolzhna zametit’, ja tsenju Vashu chestnost’ i priznatel’na Vam za to, chto obratilis’ so svoim obvinenijem Vy imenno ko mne, otkazavshis’ ot razgovora v tret’ih litsah, k chemu ja i prizyvala v pervom svojom soobschenii na etoj nitke foruma. No sejchas ja zhdu ot Vas dal’nejshih shagov. Priznajus’, ja ne rasschityvaju na to, chto Vy i v samom dele stanete zvonit’ mne. No pozvol’te, po krajnej mere, nadejat’sja, chto Vy snizojdjote do otveta na moi – uvy, poka besplodnyje! – popytki dokazat’ Vam, gm, chto ja-taki ne verbljud.
A mezhdu tem, smeju predlozhit’ Vashemu vnimaniju napisannoje mnoj chetverostishije. Vy, verojatno, skazhete, chto ja nashla jego (naryla, nadybala, otkopala) gde-to v internete… V takom sluchaje, polagaju, Vam ne sostavit truda dobrat’sja - s pomosch’ju poiskovoj sistemy – do togo sajta, otkuda ja dannoje chetverostishije ukrala (sljamzila, styrila, sp*zdila, skommunizdila, spionerila). I jesli Vy prishljote mne ssylku na etot sajt, ja priznaju sebja Makeroj, zhitel’nitsej Cevernoj Karoliny, Papoj Rimskim – kem Vam budet ugodno!
Aprel’-menestrel’ zaigrajet na ljutnjah serdets,
Ottajut serdtsa, zazvenjat kolokol’chiki-kapli,
I gorech’ sarkazma ostavit tebja, nakonets,
I proch’ uplyvjot po ruch’jam, kak bumazhnyj korablik.
Uzh ne obessud’te, ja ne Pushkin!
Jesli Vam zahochetsja, chtoby ja prislala Vam stihotvorenije podlinnjeje – tol’ko skazhite! “Vy prosite pesen – ih jest’ u menja!”
So I can demonstrate that I’m Russian. If this message wasn’t enough I can write in Russian something more – at any moment.
Unfortunately, I don’t know how I could prove I’ve never posted under the name “Makera”. “Kogda uslyshu eho toj molvy,/ Jedva li uderzhus’ ne razrydat’sja./ Ne to beda, chto otvernjotes’ Vy,/ A to beda, chto mne ne opravdat’sja” – V. Dolina: “When I’ll hear an echo of that rumour,/ I’ll unlikely keep myself from breaking into tears./ The misfortune isn’t that you’ll turn your back on me,/ But the misfortune is that I can’t vindicate myself”. And I don’t know why our messages on the “Buddha” thread looked as the one – if they really did. Actually, I even had some objections regarding the translation of the mantra which was offered by Gennelle. But I saw no need to organize a buddhological conference so I retrained from posting them there.
But I can give you following information (saying with the words from the film “Semnadtsat’ mgnovenij vesny” it’s “informatsija k razmyshleniju”).
1. I registered in 17.09.03. Makera registered in 22.09.03. I don’t think that during this short period somebody could get a wish to express his/her “alternate ego” under another name.
2. When I wanted to say something negative I did it under my own name - for example, that “if you are full of venom, bite your own tale…” to Heretic.
Dear Elizabeth, I ask you again, could you confirm here once again, please, that you know my home address? Could you also call the names of my country and my city? If no one believes me, maybe someone will believe you…
Also I heard some sites/servers have programms that help to determine the location of the computer that connects with server - they determine country and city. Dear Jarkko, if there really are such programms, hasn’t your site something like that? [I think it hasn’t, but who knows]. Could you help me, please?
And there’s only one thing I can’t understand. Who did I offend on this Board and with what? What was a cause of that slander?
Huh, look for the motive and you will find the killer.
Helven.
P. S. I don’t deny I’m a neurotic. I really am. But I’m not a liar.
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Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
Helven so far as I am aware you have offended no one and you have certainly not offended me. The problem is when you started on this forum within a few days of Makera your English was hesitant it is now pristine. You and Makera appeared to be batting off each other, compliments flying between you. On first impressions I liked both you and Makera but as time has passed I realise my first impression of Makera was totally wrong. Perhaps a few peoples perception of Makera has changed and people are putting 2 and 2 together they may be making 4 or they may be making 5.
I don't know whether or not you and she are one and the same if not I am afraid you have been caught in the backlash.
By the way the problem is not having dual identities quite a few on the board have those it is more to do with the personalities behind the indentity.
I don't know whether or not you and she are one and the same if not I am afraid you have been caught in the backlash.
By the way the problem is not having dual identities quite a few on the board have those it is more to do with the personalities behind the indentity.
Last edited by Paula on Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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George.Wright
- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
Heretic
I was wrong to accuse him by innendo of his involvement, there are others at work to discredit Helven, whom i support and believe.
georges
georges
Last edited by George.Wright on Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
My dear Helven ~
This is unspeakably sad
. I recoil at the thought of fulfilling your request. It is only out of my untouchably high regard for you, with your having asked me to do so, that I confirm that you live in St. Petersburg, Russia. It deeply saddened me to see the lengths to which you are so genuinely willing to go, to try to prove your authenticity. My heart breaks with this.
I have known, heart and soul, who you are from the very beginning. I have never once questioned it. You have been a breath of fresh, beautiful air.
I have seen Makera compliment people here. I have seen you compliment people here. It is your nature to receive and extend compliments to others, as you see fit. To be falsely identified, or to have it count as evidence 'against' you is wholly unthinkable. Likewise, with your English abilities. Has no one considered that your extensive familiarity with Buddhism, through repeated exposure, would allow you to express its precepts in flawless English? Or that you would be sincere enough to answer someone's question, in detail, with regard to a discipline that is deeply a part of your heart? You did so in the manner of someone wishing to merely impart information, not in the way of trying to impress with how much you know, and they don't. You were thorough and fully appropriate.
With regard to Makera, I have most certainly come to a different level of understanding of her and with her. Some of this has been accomplished through things she has posted, and some of it through interaction between us, both on the Forum and through PMs. It does not mean I agree with everything she says or does. This should not be surprizing to anyone who truly knows me. I have always preferred bridges to chasms. If there is any way to build a bridge, absent compromising my ethics, principles, and beliefs, you will find me by the edge, trying to find and use the most appropriate tools and materials for doing so. We all make our own, personal choices. I try to make those through which I can live without anger and bitterness. My choice and my nature.
I have already sent a gift to Makera, in the United States, and I will soon be sending one to you, in Russia.
My dear Helven. You have brought such beauty here. I look forward to more of your depth and understanding, your intelligence, your delightful sweetness, your sincere and genuine nature. My love to you, Helven.
Love,
Elizabeth
[Edit was adding the word "principles."]
This is unspeakably sad
. I recoil at the thought of fulfilling your request. It is only out of my untouchably high regard for you, with your having asked me to do so, that I confirm that you live in St. Petersburg, Russia. It deeply saddened me to see the lengths to which you are so genuinely willing to go, to try to prove your authenticity. My heart breaks with this. I have known, heart and soul, who you are from the very beginning. I have never once questioned it. You have been a breath of fresh, beautiful air.
I have seen Makera compliment people here. I have seen you compliment people here. It is your nature to receive and extend compliments to others, as you see fit. To be falsely identified, or to have it count as evidence 'against' you is wholly unthinkable. Likewise, with your English abilities. Has no one considered that your extensive familiarity with Buddhism, through repeated exposure, would allow you to express its precepts in flawless English? Or that you would be sincere enough to answer someone's question, in detail, with regard to a discipline that is deeply a part of your heart? You did so in the manner of someone wishing to merely impart information, not in the way of trying to impress with how much you know, and they don't. You were thorough and fully appropriate.
With regard to Makera, I have most certainly come to a different level of understanding of her and with her. Some of this has been accomplished through things she has posted, and some of it through interaction between us, both on the Forum and through PMs. It does not mean I agree with everything she says or does. This should not be surprizing to anyone who truly knows me. I have always preferred bridges to chasms. If there is any way to build a bridge, absent compromising my ethics, principles, and beliefs, you will find me by the edge, trying to find and use the most appropriate tools and materials for doing so. We all make our own, personal choices. I try to make those through which I can live without anger and bitterness. My choice and my nature.
I have already sent a gift to Makera, in the United States, and I will soon be sending one to you, in Russia.
My dear Helven. You have brought such beauty here. I look forward to more of your depth and understanding, your intelligence, your delightful sweetness, your sincere and genuine nature. My love to you, Helven.
Love,
Elizabeth
[Edit was adding the word "principles."]
Last edited by lizzytysh on Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YDF, da nu Vas, vidala ja etu terapiju! Hy, “plavali, znajem”! (Sorry, don’t know how to translate it in English. Literally it means that I’ve already seen such a therapy and also it has a connotation that I’m waving away.)
Boogahboo, thanks for the confirmation.
Paula, as for my English… When I said I wanted to improve my English I really meant it. And now I’m refreshing in my mind English grammer, I’m reading textbooks, and I’m trying to learn something from the postings of native speaking people. That’s rather funny but this very situation shows my endeavours aren’t futile… I can add also that in the very beginning I didn’t use that Lingvo 8.0 dictionary.
And as for the personalities, I’ve never claimed I’m a good person. I have a lot of imperfections. I’m lazy, I have a lack of self-confidence, I’m irritable sometimes, and so on, and so forth. And, I confess, it’s very unpleasant when someone else tells me about them. But, nevertheless, that’s okay, I’m ready to acknowledge my real imperfections. But that’s a problem for me, it hurts me when someone blames me unjustly. And I even envy you a little, your self-confidence, if it isn’t problem for you when you yourself face such situations.
And, finally, as for Makera, yes, I also disliked certain things she did (yes, Gennelle, that’s true). And I even criticized her in the “Muffins” thread when she attacked Elizabeth. But I usually try to not pass sentence on somebody once and for all. I think everyone has a right on mistake and everyone can change his/her mistake. And as far as I can see Makera has corrected that mistake. But I may be wrong, I don’t know. And also, since I know myself, since I know “I’m not an angel”, I don’t demand perfection from the others, as well. And don’t think that negative traits and actions annihilate value of the positive ones.
And I've always appreciated Makera's support.
George, thank you very much for the trust! It’s very important to know that there is someone who believes you! Very, very important!
Elizabeth, thank you very much for that you’ve said here! It isn’t so that this situation is a problem for me just because I’m attacked here. Yes, it hurts me. But it hurt me also (and maybe even more) that, as I was afraid, you could finally believe that it was me who attacked you in the beginning under the name Makera. It was cruelly for me to think about that because I appreciate you very much. I appreciate your openness, your kind attitude to me and to all the others, your geniality, your readiness to conduct dialogue. I think it’s, for the most part, thanks to you that everyone can find the warmth here, in this Forum, everyone can feel at home here. And it would be terrible for me to offend you, to insult you, to hurt you somehow. Even if I did it by accident it really was terrible. And that’s why it was so important to clarify this situation, that’s why I still couldn’t simply say goodbye. And even if all the others will say that I’m lying here the most important thing for me is to know that you trust me. So thank you again for saying that.
Love,
TH
Boogahboo, thanks for the confirmation.
Paula, as for my English… When I said I wanted to improve my English I really meant it. And now I’m refreshing in my mind English grammer, I’m reading textbooks, and I’m trying to learn something from the postings of native speaking people. That’s rather funny but this very situation shows my endeavours aren’t futile… I can add also that in the very beginning I didn’t use that Lingvo 8.0 dictionary.
And as for the personalities, I’ve never claimed I’m a good person. I have a lot of imperfections. I’m lazy, I have a lack of self-confidence, I’m irritable sometimes, and so on, and so forth. And, I confess, it’s very unpleasant when someone else tells me about them. But, nevertheless, that’s okay, I’m ready to acknowledge my real imperfections. But that’s a problem for me, it hurts me when someone blames me unjustly. And I even envy you a little, your self-confidence, if it isn’t problem for you when you yourself face such situations.
And, finally, as for Makera, yes, I also disliked certain things she did (yes, Gennelle, that’s true). And I even criticized her in the “Muffins” thread when she attacked Elizabeth. But I usually try to not pass sentence on somebody once and for all. I think everyone has a right on mistake and everyone can change his/her mistake. And as far as I can see Makera has corrected that mistake. But I may be wrong, I don’t know. And also, since I know myself, since I know “I’m not an angel”, I don’t demand perfection from the others, as well. And don’t think that negative traits and actions annihilate value of the positive ones.
And I've always appreciated Makera's support.
George, thank you very much for the trust! It’s very important to know that there is someone who believes you! Very, very important!
Elizabeth, thank you very much for that you’ve said here! It isn’t so that this situation is a problem for me just because I’m attacked here. Yes, it hurts me. But it hurt me also (and maybe even more) that, as I was afraid, you could finally believe that it was me who attacked you in the beginning under the name Makera. It was cruelly for me to think about that because I appreciate you very much. I appreciate your openness, your kind attitude to me and to all the others, your geniality, your readiness to conduct dialogue. I think it’s, for the most part, thanks to you that everyone can find the warmth here, in this Forum, everyone can feel at home here. And it would be terrible for me to offend you, to insult you, to hurt you somehow. Even if I did it by accident it really was terrible. And that’s why it was so important to clarify this situation, that’s why I still couldn’t simply say goodbye. And even if all the others will say that I’m lying here the most important thing for me is to know that you trust me. So thank you again for saying that.
Love,
TH
Helven fairly recently on this site we had some trolls displaying the good cop/bad cop syndrome. It would not be out of the question for this to be a similar happening.
You are assuming that I think you are an unlikeable character. I like your character it is normal. Whether you have insecurities, are lazy, lack self confidence etc etc that is normal. I can relate to that. Makera started off being a likeable character and then started to believe her own publicity until a monster was created. There is nothing in her character I can relate to there is nothing in her character that I find likeable.
Helven is a nice character and Makera is not. And before you all come down on me like a ton of bricks that is my opinion. If you are not one and the same character then I apologise to Helven I don't apologise to Makera.
You are assuming that I think you are an unlikeable character. I like your character it is normal. Whether you have insecurities, are lazy, lack self confidence etc etc that is normal. I can relate to that. Makera started off being a likeable character and then started to believe her own publicity until a monster was created. There is nothing in her character I can relate to there is nothing in her character that I find likeable.
Helven is a nice character and Makera is not. And before you all come down on me like a ton of bricks that is my opinion. If you are not one and the same character then I apologise to Helven I don't apologise to Makera.
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Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
Andrew McGeever from Byron stop Read your question and puzzled stop Never reaching an end cannot stop 
Tune was not present at birth stop Tune immediately entered void in my head stop Windmills in my mind not stopped stop 
Medication now needed to stop stop 
Matron ! stop playing that damn tune STOP
Tune was not present at birth stop Tune immediately entered void in my head stop Windmills in my mind not stopped stop Medication now needed to stop stop Matron ! stop playing that damn tune STOP
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
