Hallelujah???

justjane · Post by **justjane** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:05 pm

I'd like to hear from others - what's your take on the song "Hallelujah"? What do you think it means? thanks.

Woodsman · Post by **Woodsman** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:51 pm

I don't know what it means. I can't even show you what it feels like.
Well, I could try ...
No, I really can't ...
Okay, it's like a marshmallow that is perfectly toasted over the fire.
That should do it.

Cohen Knight · Post by **Cohen Knight** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:04 am

I always thought it somehow meant finding light in the most uninspired situations...but hey what do I know!

CT · Post by CT » Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:40 am

God is in the details.

God is in the mundane.

Slicing plums in the cool morning dew is an act of prayer. So is crying your eyes out, vomiting the excesses of a night on the town, and tucking your children into bed. All of it.

Hallelujah · Post by **Hallelujah** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:46 am

I hope you don't do all of those simultaneously!

Helven · Post by **Helven** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:35 pm

You see, "shit happens". Everyone knows it. Sometimes our lives fill with routine, with vanity, resemble exhausting pursuite of the things that, being achieved, turn out to be unnecessary. There are something that disturbs us and something that cuts the ground from under our feet. We cherish our hopes and ideals but the reality shows them to be nothing but soap-bubbles; we "knock at the door" - trying to be heared, to be understood - but we knock in vain; we grasp at something we cannot keep etc,etc,etc.
Even being quite stable, doing our best and feeling quite happy we still hardly can say our lives are full of meaning. It happens.
But the moments still come... the moments of genuinity when something that makes us think, "Yes, it is worth living!" occurs. (Everyone has his/her own moments.)
And then rising above the vanity, looking back at our lives we accept all the life manifestations. We say our "Yes!" to the life as the whole with all its pointlessness, with all the troubles, disappointment, crashes, collapses it makes us experience. And these very moments the music sounds deep in our hearts - the melody of life. We understand suddently, all that seemed to be wrong is wright in fact. Everything is just as it must be. And no matter what our own melodies sound like - like Bach' praeludium or like simple motif played with old guitar out of tune - everything is perfect

.

That's what the Hallelujah means to me. Approximately

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:10 am

I'm not trivializing when I say I sure do like the way you put that, Helven. "Approximately," of course, the perfect ending

. How could anyone possibly hope to be exact

? Welcome to the Forum

!

~ Lizzytysh

John the Shorts · Post by **John the Shorts** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:30 pm

Shwmae Helven

Welcome to the board

JTS (There are too many optimists here

)

Helven · Post by **Helven** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:32 pm

Lizzytysh, JTS, thanks for your Welcomes!
Happy to meet you!

Yes, Lizzytysh, noone could be exact.
Although... Probably, good lyrics are out of the sphere of the "approximately/exactly" at all. True poetry is just like music. Memories, associations, feelings, thoughts, moods... how numerous are they while we listen to music! And - again - everyone has his/her own memories etc. Impression that music (and poetry as well) produces on us, our opinions and interpretations depend upon our own life experience. Since experiences are different opinions are different too. But each of them has a right on existance and each of them is "wright"... just because it arises.
Of course, there is such a thing as histiry of arts... There may be a kind of objectivity in dealing with a piece of poetry or music. In our interpretations we may refer to the historical context, hidden philosophical or ideological motives, author's views and so on. Such an objective interpretation may be "correct", "exact", "approximate", "incorrect"... But when it is completed there still remain something else.
There remains the field of meanings that grow up from the Chaos of personal impressions. It is a sphere of total subjectivity. And there is nothing to describe as "exact" or "approximate" within this realm. Or, in the other words, everything is exact here.

...And my best respects to all the optimists!

...Everyone who has nothing to lose anymore becomes the greatest optimist...

(It just flashed through my mind. I don't mean anything special)

P.S. Lizzytysh, thanks for your commentary on the drags&tricks theme.

It was ineresting for me

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:42 am

You're welcome, Helven from Hellespont. You're so right with the music and poetry, that there will always be the undefinable element, and I think it's still in addition to our personal subjectives. Yet, there are some basic "rules" that apply to both, that allow for a certain amount of objectivity and analysis.

Helven · Post by **Helven** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:55 pm

Yes, of course!

Sometimes one has to oversimplify certain things

in order to avoid verbosity. (Actually I did was verbose, but, I hope, it wasn’t too boring.)
Of course, a subjective element of interpretation doesn’t repeal an objective one. I can say even more. That what we call “subjective”, being analysed carefully, turns out to be something … “non-personal” (“not-too-much-personal”, at least) ‘cause subjectivity forms while being influenced by very many quite objective things. And, without a doubt, it’s an objectivity that makes both analysis and intercommunication process possible.
But the reason why I’ve emphasized a subjective side of perception roots in follows. I really did (and do) mean that each and every interpretation – even if it looks “wrong” or “strange” or “too personal” at first glance – is valuable in fact. It is always “exact” from this very point of view. And different opinions don’t exclude but rather complement one another.
And as far as I’m concerned, I believe “the indefinable” that always presents “in addition” to our personal subjective interpretations is an inexhaustible possibility of other ones.
And what is it for you, Lizzytysh? It’s very interesting. Really.
(Or did you mean something absolutely indefinite that can’t be spoken about at all?)

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:43 pm

Hi Helven!

I certainly can't answer your posting and give it justice from where I sit at the moment. However, I can for certain say that I agree with what you've said, and that everyone's interpretation has validity. I tend NOT to give my "interpretations," as many who do are "rooted" in Cohen scholarism. This would include historical, biblical, spiritual, cultural, etc. references, of which I'm unaware. However, I can relate how I feel about any particular songs and my reasons why. This level of commentary would be based on my own personal relationship with the world, including the outside world and my perception of events that have occurred there, and my more limited knowledge of the things I've listed above. However, I'm most content to leave my personal resonations with his songs with me, and read the ones by others that are inclusive of the above. I learn much from them, and they offer various insights into his offerings. I also agree that different opinions don't exclude but rather complement one another.

I agree that subjectivity is/can be built upon a variety of "objective" factors, as well. I, of course, didn't mean to do a reducio ad absurdum with your first posting. I just didn't feel I could add much more to it. I do also feel that there really is an "absolutely indefinite that can't be spoken about at all," as we are quite restricted by language, and in the case of English, 26 letters in varying combinations. Much more to life than that! Even so, I agree with what you say regarding the inexhaustible possibility of other personal subjective interpretations. Some VERY interesting things that you've said here!

~ Lizzytysh

Helven · Post by **Helven** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:26 pm

I, of course, didn't mean to do a reducio ad absurdum with your first posting.

Oh, Lizzytysh, my postings weren’t caused by any negative reactions on your replies. Sometimes I get too carried away with “theorizing”. It was just such a case. Your words have given rise to some thoughts and I’ve shared them.
I’m very, very sorry if I’ve made you think that something wasn’t OK for me.

Helven

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:12 am

That's okay, Helven, my response was just so cut and dried, but not as thoughtful as it should or could have been, so I was just clarifying that more than anything. I see I misspelled reducio

. It should be reductio. I enjoyed your carried-away philosophizing, regardless.

~ Lizzytysh

jeannieb · Post by **jeannieb** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:07 pm

"There's a blaze of light in EVERY word", or so the man says.

I believe him.

Thank you all who replied to this thread. I think the answers were remarkably in agreement, and my understanding of this song follows in this path as well.

It is a great song to sing along to at the top of one's lungs. It is especially fun to do this in a MINI while spiting cherry pits out the moon roof.

Thank you, Leonard. Whoever told you you were the grocer of despair?