Before You're Sixty-Four.

[damellon]

Sue
I don't know what Mr S. has done to you, but I'd divorce him if I were you.
You don't sound a bit well.
Take up your ironing board and walk.

[Cate]

More to the point, anybody who publicly questions somebody else's motives
simply because they happen to find the person harboring them to be a bit too entertaining,
or too irritating, for their personal taste, is blatantly committing the most famous of them all
- the ad hominem no no -

Ouch Greg - I gotta tell you I'm feeling defensive.

Are you suggesting that I have made a personal attack against Geoffrey? Why would I? I don’t know him and have no desire to control his actions, I’m not even sure if I agree or disagree with him as I’m not sure what Geoffrey’s point is – is he mocking or is he honestly trying to make a morality point. Geoffrey doesn’t bug me but William does (that may be here nor there – I’m getting confused about who is who)– in fact I found Geoffrey’s story about going over to get supplies entertaining. Finally I have no desire to defend Andrew, I don't know him and seems quite capable of defending himself - for all I know, they may be good friends.

Naw, it's not really weird yet - the key to remember is that Geoffrey is as much fiction as the poem - he's just playing. My guess is that he likes this poem just fine, why else would he pull it out again after such a long time. I suspect the only beef he might have with the poem, is how much Andrew left to the imagination - I'm not sure why though, 'Geoffrey' seems to have a fine imagination - just check out his shopping list.
I do have to wonder about the length of time he's been going on - maybe he does have some kind of an issue here or maybe he's just like a Saturday Night Live skit that keeps going and going, with him sat at home laughing himself silly.

I hadn’t actually meant to try and guess his motive, I hadn’t really put much thought into it. I had made an assumption that he was joking - what you did quote me as saying was just me acknowledging my assumption might be wrong – that maybe there was more to it than just a joke. You know me Greg – not very confident in my assumptions. I should try to avoid making them. Honestly - I don't see a personal attack here.

Geoffrey not meaning to talk about you in the third person – not sure how else to phrase it.


The poem - I can't really see what could be offensive here.

The man in the poem is thinking fondly of a woman he once loved.
Love doesn't end does it? Maybe it changes, but I don't think you can love someone and then not love them - that can't be right - that's a horrible thought.
Geoffrey seems to be saying that because the couple has new lovers/partners that these emotions should be locked away. I'm not saying that people should run out and have affairs but it doesn't sound like this man wants an affair or run away - he just wants to reconnect with someone he cares about. I think the sex part is left out because the sex seems secondary - the intimacy seems to be more about connecting.

[annie blue]

Last night I posted a reply on this thread and ended it by saying I wouldn't come back. I also considered not coming back on the forum. When I joined in February this year I thought it would be nice to chat with people whon shared common interests. Most of the time that has been the case. I read this thread over a week ago and found it entertaining and posted a reply. I then commented on further postings but never was I intentionally rude. Any comments I made were made lightheartedly and I thought that that was the case with others. I'm not as verbally proficient as some of you but I'm not stupid. Last night when I came on to the thread it was as a distraction from some upsetting news that I had received. News that had me awake most of the night. I read 'Geoffrey's' post and thought ' what the hell am I doing here?'. What originally was going to dispel some of the lonelier moments at home alone has become very stressful and unnecessary. I thought I was going to find something interesting in what other people write, but instead found alot of it rude and patronising.

Caught in a mousetrap Greg? You have no idea and I hope you never do. I simply didn't have the energy to retaliate. Oh look, a wink just for you. Life has dealt me a bad hand but I don't dwell. I can't allow the guff that people have thrown at me over the years to bring me down. I've had enough put downs in my life and I don't need anyone else to do that to me thank you. Especially people I don't even know.

Andrew, I know that criticism is a big part of writing anything but this has gone above and beyond the call of duty. Your poem was simply lovely and that's that.

So, once again, I wish you all peaceful and happy times ahead and hope you think twice when commenting in the future. Quote away to your hearts content.

[mickey_one]

Hi Annie, I used to be a regular here but took a break about a month ago. My advice is pretty obvious- don't take it too seriously. Geoffrey has been around forever, he is a good writer but a deliberate stirrer. Who knows whether he really objects to any part of Andrew's poem. Probably not. Geoffrey also creates other characters from time to time- he has recently been a troll called William (which didn't really work as "William" had no apparent purpose or wit), and also Geoffrey is the Ironing Lady, Sue Sideways.Greg is a different and real character whose posts I rate very highly.

Cate, Damellon and Manna are all treasures.

regards

michael

[damellon]

Thanks, Michael
I notice you used the fairest way - alphabetical order - to list your treasures
I bags be a Faberge Egg!

[annie blue]

Michael, you are of course right. Thank you for your comment and consider yourself a little treasure yourself. Now just stop me from coming in here

[mickey_one]

Dear Faberthingy Eggperson, a belated welcome to the forum poetry place.

[Manna]

Mickey, nice to see you again.

Is this code for something:: I bags be a Faberge Egg!
I don't follow

I bags my groceries at what be a market sometimes.

[Geoffrey]

I beg all of my readers to please settle down. There has been somewhere between twenty and thirty messsages sent to this thread since yesterday alone. Please understand that I have no chance of giving each and every one of you the personal attention you long for and deserve. At least not immediately. As soon as time permits I will endeavour to pop in and make a comment or two. Until then, remember that there are a lot of other threads - newer ones - begging for participants. You don't all have to accumulate here in this old one just because I am known to sometimes make the occasional appearance. It's nice to see your enthusiasm, but spread yourselves around a bit - be independent - circulate. Don't worry, I won't be far away.

[Cate]

Awe - everything is good again

Nice to see you again Michael.
I bags be an opal.

Glad your staying Annie

Manna - I bags be - it's calling who or what you want to be- Like I bags be Darth Vader (but I alway got stuck playing princess Leah - blah)

[Sideways]

Awe - everything is good again

Nice to see you again Michael.
I bags be an opal.

Glad your staying Annie

Manna - I bags be - it's calling who or what you want to be- Like I bags be Darth Vader (but I alway got stuck playing princess Leah - blah)

I bags be finished my ironing by 6 this evening!

love

Geoffrey

[~greg]

Annie!

I mean you no harm!
In fact I bags be Daddy Warbucks

~~

I really didn't know what your winkys meant. And so therefore I had
to comment on them. Because the way you meant them
made the difference in whether I was serious or not.

(That's always one of the many big problems we all have
in deciding if we are "really serious" or if we are "just joking".
Because it depends as much on the other guy as it does on us.)

I commented on your winkys in a clumsy way, with an intended humor
that fell flat. I can see that now. And I apologize for it.

But all I meant was that I didn't know if your winkys meant that you were
thoroughly hip to Geoffrey, and so therefore surely were not serious
when you said:
"i retract my earlier statement to let this run forever. let's just leave it dead."

Because to know Geoffrey is to, if not to love him, then at least it's to know
that that could never have worked. Because Geoffrey has never
been known to leave well enough alone. And he never will. Neither for you
nor for the moon. To be sure, he'll say he will. But then he won't.
And eventually you have got to love him for it. His incorrigible consistency.
Provided "love" is the proper word for "being a little bit addicted to
a silly little irritant". Or, if not, then, if you're lucky, you'll at least
get used to it. Or at least figure out a way to live with it.

However, after you said that, -with the winkies,
-then, -the very next day,- you said something with
an entirely different tone, and no winky.
You said:
"you know what geoffrey, i really can't be bothered.
it's too depressing in here. .. over and most definitely out."


Which reminded me that, just a week before, you had said
that you had --
"just read the whole thread from start to finish
and that was one of the most entertaining hours i've spent in a long time
i'd like to thank andrew, lizzy, geoffrey, judith, my mum for having me
thus allowing the pleasure of life and everyone else for the great postings.
... i think we should try and keep this thread going foreeeeeeeeeeever "

~~~

And that's what put the image of a mouse smelling cheese, about to die,
into my head.

But for God's sake, Annie, I didn't mean it as a put-down!
It was pure empathy!

It was purely descriptive of the dynamics
of the change that had come over you in one week.

Due to my knowledge of the potential energy of the negative
that's always lurking in every thread, - along side the positive
which can also usually be found in most threads, - your effusive
expression of joy at having discovered the positive in this
particular thread seemed to me to be like the smelling of the cheese.
At that point in time you were completely oblivious to the potential
negative energy, which can, in a snap, be converted into kinetic
energy, in any thread. It happens all the time. It happens
to me all the time. It happened to me this time. I really
did not expect the reaction I got here this time. And, as
a matter of fact, I do feel just like a mouse who was simply
trying to nibble a bit of cheese, and to share it with everybody.
And now my neck is broken! And my rubbery little legs, no bigger,
and no more harmful to anybody, than swizzle sticks,
have had their last shudder wrung out from under them!
And all I have left to move is this one whisker. With which
I am typing this.

~~~

I have killed two mice in my life.

The first one was many decades ago when I was first married.
It was the classic scene. The wife up on a chair. Me being macho
with a machete. But the mouse was onto us and so we ultimately
had to resort to the use of a mouse trap. We used Brie.

The snap in the night wasn't loud.
But it woke us both up.

We buried it in the back yard,
after saying a few words. "A short life. But a good one.
He died smelling cheese."

And ever after that, the expression "died smelling cheese"
became a thing with us.

~~

My second murder was, as a matter of fact, just a couple of
days ago.

(Which is why I was primed to use the mouse-trap metaphor.)

A field mouse got in. And I always over-react to these things.
I set up a dozen mouse-traps.

Got it. Threw it out. No ceremony.

Which made me very sad.
"Concerning the first few friends I had."

Because for one thing I don't like killing.
And those two mice were several orders of magnitude
larger than anything else I've ever personally killed.

And for another thing I know, with absolute certitude,
that the expression "died smelling peanut-butter"
will never be a thing with me. Not now.
And not when I'm 64.

~~

And thinking about that just made me realize that there is
at least one consistent way, perhaps the only way, to read
Andrew's poem, that can even account for the title.

(Forgive me if somebody else has realized this already.)

It's that the poem is simply about Andrew and his wife.
Nobody else. No adultery. It's all pretend.
They are role playing. Exactly the way that
all the best Catholic marriage manuals recommend,
in order to help keep a marriage lively.
The poem is 100% playful and completely innocent.

Or I certainly hope so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Manna said:
"this is obviously Greg, trying to discredit my estimation of
his to-be-taken-seriousliness".

So Manna thinks I was referring to her, and a post of hers,
dated Thursday April 10, 2008, 8:26pm,
in the "The word and the voice of God" thread.

However that isn't true.
And I am unaware of any such post or thread.
Nor would I be disposed to discuss such a post or thread
if it did, in fact, exist, sir.

Truth is, I was afraid that Manna would think what she thought.
But then I thought that she'd think that I would have thought
that she would have thought that, and so I would therefore
have said explicitly that I didn't mean her.

But then I thought that she'd think that I'd would have thought
that she'd think what she thought and so therefore there was
no need for me to actually say what I was thinking of saying.
So I didn't.

And then, of course, when she replied in a way
that implied that she thought in the way that I had thought
she'd think, I knew that that was just her way of confirming
for me that she had in fact thought what I had thought she'd think,
and so therefore she didn't need to not say it.

It isn't that Manna and me are the center of the universe.
It's just that we think alike. Sometimes. In certain ways.

I am quite sure, for example, that I can now play the banjo very well.
Even though I never have.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In summary, with Diane, - I sing to thee --
(and to Manna and Cate who should know better)

PLEASE DON'T LET ME BE MISUNDERSTOOD
(--Benjamin/Marcus/Caldwell)
Baby, do you understand me now
Sometimes I feel a little mad
Well don't you know that no one alive
Can always be an angel
When things go wrong I seem to be bad
-- I'm just a soul who's intentions are good
-- Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Baby, sometimes I'm so carefree
With a joy that's hard to hide
And sometimes it seems that
All I have to do is worry
And then you're bound to see my other side
-- I'm just a soul who's intentions are good
-- Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
If I seem edgy, I want you to know
That I never mean to take it out on you
Life has it's problems and I get my share
And that's one thing I never mean to do
-- I'm just a soul who's intentions are good
-- Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

[William]

Annie Blue,
Another thing you should note before you begin here is that minckeyone knows everything about everything and won't brook dissent.
If, however, the dissenters continue to dissent he insults them.
If that doesn't work he goes off in one of his little huffs, hoping we'll miss him like hell.

On the question of his knowing everything about everything, he writes:

"Geoffrey has been around forever, he is a good writer but a deliberate stirrer. Who knows whether he really objects to any part of Andrew's poem. Probably not. Geoffrey also creates other characters from time to time- he has recently been a troll called William (which didn't really work as "William" had no apparent purpose or wit), and also Geoffrey is the Ironing Lady, Sue Sideways.Greg is a different and real character whose posts I rate very highly."

You will note that minckey has the final word on who is and isn't a good writer so listen carefully when he declaims!

However, an inability on minckey's part to master the basics of quoting without using a box leads one to believe he is in fact Sideways Sue which raises the possibility of his also being Geoffrey.


There is, of course, the possibility that he is also you - which would come as no surprise.

I am who I am - not Geoffrey or any other gnome de plume.

minckey doesn't like my sense of humour, 'though once we talked as acquaintances who shared the friendship of Jeffrey Archer, Baron Archer of Weston-super-Mare.

minckey likes to drop names, too. And you simply must see his scintillating collection of photographs elsewhere on the site.

Armed with that information, travel safely.
God bless,
William

PS The fact that you are (apparently) a woman means you're less likely to suffer minckey's slings and arrows. He likes women because (he believes) they offer no threat to his scintillating wit and undoubted wisom.

[damellon]

Because I value courtesy, I have taken the time to read these l-e-n-g-t-h-y contributions. I wish I hadn't.
They have contributed nothing to an appreciation of Andrew's poem, in praise of which I would like to say, buttons and their undoing, do it for me, every time.

[mickey_one]

Annie Blue,
Another thing you should note before you begin here is that minckeyone knows everything about everything and won't brook dissent.
If, however, the dissenters continue to dissent he insults them.
If that doesn't work he goes off in one of his little huffs, hoping we'll miss him like hell.

On the question of his knowing everything about everything, he writes:

"Geoffrey has been around forever, he is a good writer but a deliberate stirrer. Who knows whether he really objects to any part of Andrew's poem. Probably not. Geoffrey also creates other characters from time to time- he has recently been a troll called William (which didn't really work as "William" had no apparent purpose or wit), and also Geoffrey is the Ironing Lady, Sue Sideways.Greg is a different and real character whose posts I rate very highly."

You will note that minckey has the final word on who is and isn't a good writer so listen carefully when he declaims!

However, an inability on minckey's part to master the basics of quoting without using a box leads one to believe he is in fact Sideways Sue which raises the possibility of his also being Geoffrey.


There is, of course, the possibility that he is also you - which would come as no surprise.

I am who I am - not Geoffrey or any other gnome de plume.

minckey doesn't like my sense of humour, 'though once we talked as acquaintances who shared the friendship of Jeffrey Archer, Baron Archer of Weston-super-Mare.

minckey likes to drop names, too. And you simply must see his scintillating collection of photographs elsewhere on the site.

Armed with that information, travel safely.
God bless,
William

PS The fact that you are (apparently) a woman means you're less likely to suffer minckey's slings and arrows. He likes women because (he believes) they offer no threat to his scintillating wit and undoubted wisom.

Hi William/Geoffrey, I am sorry that you are feeling so hurt. Your post at least gave me a small chuckle as it's years since I have seen anyone troll by misspelling another's name. It takes me back to school days!

I wish you better

michael