Benicassim update

[ForYourSmile]

textatemp ~

In February when you still were not interested by Leonard Cohen, here we discuss the convenience of this site. Someone was considering inadequate to go with kids, for example. I do not think to debate on Benicàssim or on your "lovely unspoilt beach and surrounding area". It is not my intention to despise it. You seem to me a little offended by this.

Just I continue affirming that it is not a suitable site for Leonard Cohen. I believe that it is easy to understand that every artist and every public have his / their spaces.

How you well say I do not take a real interest for your festival. But you will not limit me in giving my opinion in this thread, not in any other place.

You have made me laugh when qualify my post as snob. To give to you the reason I will say that I do not like Leonard Cohen's image cut and paste that still appears in http://fiberfib.com/ in your "lovely unspoilt beach" surrounded with "guiris". (In Spain there are named contemptuously "guiris" the tourists who only come to look for the Sun, beach and other summer's topics.)


If you have a broad mind you will be able to observe how from here has become aware as soon as possible and honestly of the cancellation of this concert. If you don't like the news, do not give the fault to the messenger.

I'm very worried if cohenites are being defrauded at this moment buying tickets to see Cohen in Benicàssim. How I have said before these tickets are not for a concert, they are for the whole Festival or for one day (this one is not on sale now). According to the terms of contract there is no right of refund in case of variations or cancellations of concerts.

5. SUSPENSION OR CANCELLATION OF THE EVENT
5.1. The Organisation reserves the right to change, modify or suspend the FIB Heineken programme at any time.
5.2. In the case of total cancellation, the Organisation will refund the full amount of the ticket. The refund, in the case of cancellation, will be made by the Organisation within a period of fifteen days following the public announcement of the cancellation.
5.3. If the cancellation occurs more than half way through the show, there will be no refund at all. At any rate, the distribution cost that sales channels apply to the price of the ticket will not be refunded by the Organisation given that the Organisation is not the recipient of this charge and this service is understood to be rendered at the time of purchasing the ticket.
5.4. The cancellation, total or partial, of FIB Heineken due to forces beyond the Organisation’s control will not lead to ticket refunds.

In order to avoid swindles I hope that you already have warned to "someone with someone who works in the industry" to remove Leonard Cohen of the FIB's program.

I have visited the forum of the FIB, among other curiosities I have seen an acquaintance of hereabouts writing in correct Spanish. Leonard Cohen's topic is with much the most active, even though already the news of the cancellation has come, the organisation tries to support the hopes.

Sincerely, FYS

[daka]

Dear Henning

I don't think that the Spanish or German organizers would announce or even start tickets sales based on a rumor.

I think you don't know Spain! I have lived here seven years. I was not at all surprised to hear of this fiasco. Nearly every day in Spain is a fiasco. But the weather is quite good! And some of the people are lovely!

I suspect that Fiberfib were given instructions to NOT pre-announce Leonard in the line-up, but chose to do so anyways. This is mere speculation on my part.

I have bought tickets and, unfortunately, have no expectation of a refund if Leonard doesn't show.

I do think they should take his name down; BUT the fact that they are not taking it down leaves me a little optimistic. The fact that LC Organizers suggest that those who have bought tickets, plane tickets etc. do NOT do anything drastic at this point, until further announcements are made, is also reason for optimism.

I hope we can continue to express opinions in this thread, practicing patience and tolerance, without insulting others.

AGT

Sean

[jarkko]

Daka wrote:

The fact that LC Organizers suggest that those who have bought tickets, plane tickets etc. do NOT do anything drastic at this point, until further announcements are made, is also reason for optimism.

I have to clarify that the last sentence in my message, in other words

Probably it will be best that Benicassim ticket holders do not do anything now but remain waiting for more information.

was my own addition. I am sorry that I failed to make it clear in my original message.

Jarkko

[textatemp]

Daka wrote:

The fact that LC Organizers suggest that those who have bought tickets, plane tickets etc. do NOT do anything drastic at this point, until further announcements are made, is also reason for optimism.

I have to clarify that the last sentence in my message, in other words

Probably it will be best that Benicassim ticket holders do not do anything now but remain waiting for more information.

was my own addition. I am sorry that I failed to make it clear in my original message.

Jarkko

Can you please clarify why on 8 April you state: -

I have now 100 % confirmation from the tour management that Leonard's concert at the Benicassim Festival is definitely cancelled.

Cancelled infers that the date was originally booked.

However, in your later post you state:-

As far as Benicassim is concerned, there is nothing to say at the moment, other than Leonard has not approved the date as yet

This is a total contradiction.

[daka]

Dear Textatemp

We know not what dates that Jarkko is referring to, perhaps the original date, perhaps there is some re-negotiation of possible performance dates.

What we can assume is that this is a rather complex finalization that is taking time and that is probably dependent on other variables which are in some process of coming to clarification and a conclusion.

Jarkko is only the messenger here. The fault is not with jarkko. The fault for now is hidden from us. We may find that it has something to do with 'Music Mercenaries'. I believe Leonard Cohen is a very decent human being and his wish will be to resolve this to make as many people as possible happy. He is not a Music Mercenary.

I don't know how well you know Spain but I have lived here for seven years and this type of situation is, unfortunately quite common. I have learned patience and to maintain a sense of humor. (And the weather is quite nice!!).

We are not going to achieve any satisfaction or information or resolution from holding Jarkko accountable.

Nobody will be happier than Jarkko when this is finally and completely clarified.

Sean

[Patrice]

Just to clarify.

I don't know if we can say "cancellation" because I know from a secure source that the contract between AEG and the Benicassim Festival was never finalized (not signed, if you prefer).

Sorry for my bad English...

Patrice

[ForYourSmile]

Patrice, I suppose something like it too, and don't worry my English is worse

I think you don't know Spain! I have lived here seven years. I was not at all surprised to hear of this fiasco. Nearly every day in Spain is a fiasco. But the weather is quite good! And some of the people are lovely!

Thank you for the praises ... and also I have seen many fiascos far from Spain.

textatemp I don't know what you want with your visits. (Is temp of temporarily?)

The information has been updated. It's all. Now, not here, there is one contradiction:

a) http://www.aeglive.com/events.php?client_id=2827&page=2 Benicàssim does not exist in the program of the Cohen's tour.

b) In http://fiberfib.com/ Leonard Cohen is the first star, and the organisers are selling tickets.

In any case Leonard Cohen will be present in Benicàsim; Morente Omega con Lagartija Nick came yesterday to the program. This program changes.

[daka]

Thank you, Patrice for adding that information.

I have suspected as much. This festival was announced unexpectedly. Jarkko did not expect the announcement. All the announcements were supposed to come first through Leonard's Forum, as I remember, and I suspect that Leonard's Tour management were surprised by the announcement. Obviously there were serious negotiations and discussions going on, but perhaps Fiberfib jumped the gun.

Spain being Spain, this is not unusual. Music Mercenaries being Music Mercenaries doesn't help. I believe Jarkko and Leonard are faultless in this and the blame should go elsewhere.

(I agree, For Your Smile, that Fiascos happen everywhere. When I came to Spain, however, a Spanish friend told me about the Tourism campaign slogan 'Spain is different'.. designed to attract tourists. Though he was very Spanish he saw much humor in the slogan as it applies to his view of how things work in Spain. Hopefully one day we will meet and have a good opportunity to discuss this further. I love Spain, and I am up for the fiascos!) ... Countries like Switzerland that seem to be Fiasco-free are also difficult for me!!

Sean

[Patrice]

@ ForYourSmile :

there are a lot of contradictions in the whole schedule...!!!
and don't trust too much the AEG website.

@ Daka :

All the announcements were supposed to come first through Leonard's Forum, as I remember, and I suspect that Leonard's Tour management were surprised by the announcement.

Well, why here first ?. Why not all together ?
Many medias gave us all the news (AFP, AP, Reuters, etc) and there are two forums.

My source wrote me also "I deeply regret for Spannish fans and I understand their admiration to Leonard".
So, I suspect that the Girona dates will probably be postponed (as Jarkko wrote) - at least, nothing is confirmed yet.
About Benicassim, it's simple : they have announced Leonard Cohen without any contract, the had insisted a lot to have him, and despite of the "no" provided by Leonard and AEG, they kept Leonard's name on their site, it's not fair play and it reminds me the Paleo problem. So, they must refund money because their announcement was false.

No concert in Spain seems almost incredible !!!! But German people have only one date (near Switzerland...). And even though there's nothing in Paris, we have two dates in France, we are lucky...

Patrice

[textatemp]

Daka wrote:

The fact that LC Organizers suggest that those who have bought tickets, plane tickets etc. do NOT do anything drastic at this point, until further announcements are made, is also reason for optimism.

I have to clarify that the last sentence in my message, in other words

Probably it will be best that Benicassim ticket holders do not do anything now but remain waiting for more information.

was my own addition. I am sorry that I failed to make it clear in my original message.

Jarkko

Can you please clarify why on 8 April you state: -

I have now 100 % confirmation from the tour management that Leonard's concert at the Benicassim Festival is definitely cancelled.

Cancelled infers that the date was originally booked.

However, in your later post you state:-

As far as Benicassim is concerned, there is nothing to say at the moment, other than Leonard has not approved the date as yet

This is a total contradiction.

I was asking jarkko, not everyone else who responded.

I'm sure you all think very highly of jarkko, but he has made two very contradictory statements.

Now some of you are saying LC will play, some of you are saying he wont and some are saying that FIB have jumped the gun.

How can any of you say any of this as you know nothing. You are not an employee of the festival or of the LC management, so stop making statements that cannot be supported with evidence.

To those sticking up for jarkko, please stop sucking up to him. He is capable of responded to the question himself.

[Patrice]

How can any of you say any of this as you know nothing. You are not an employee of the festival or of the LC management, so stop making statements that cannot be supported with evidence.

My source is someone very closed with LC and the mail was sent to me with LC and the AEG team in visible copy.
So, it's not a statement but an evidence that Leonard will NOT play in Benicassim.

Jarkko and I, we have almost the same sources, we provide informations when we have real informations, we are not employees yes, but we have direct contacts with Leonard and the persons working for him (he has no real manager).

Everyone can make contradictions! I myself write a lot of contradictions, against my will...
If you read French, go to my forum, there's a topic about Benicassim, and it's written "annulé" (=cancelled) and I do admit that the word is not the best one, yes... and in this sense, you're right.

Patrice

[Tim]

textatemp, it's a public forum, anyone can post here. I'm sure Jarkko will reply in good time, but you can't demand answers here. So what if he has contradicted himself? Jarkko can only go by the information he has at any time, and sometimes that will be contradictory. Maybe you yourself are perfect and have never contradicted yourself? Maybe not. My advice is be polite, be patient and wait for more news.

Tim

PS Anyone else who wants to 'stick up' for Jarkko, even though he doesn't need it, is fine by me.

[Patrice]

So what if he has contradicted himself? Jarkko can only go by the information he has at any time, and sometimes that will be contradictory. Maybe you yourself are perfect and have never contradicted yourself? Maybe not. My advice is be polite, be patient and wait for more news.

Well said.
It's exactly what I wanted to explain. Thanks for understanding.

Patrice

[UrPal]

To those sticking up for jarkko, please stop sucking up to him. He is capable of responded to the question himself.

Textatemp, the gig will either happen or it won't. No amount of badgering jarkko, who runs a fan website out of dedication and is not privy to the negotiations between principals that may be onging or not, will make any difference to the outcome - except perhaps in a counter-productive way.

Jarkko can no more give you an answer than tell you whether or not it'll be raining on St Swithins Day until the rain splashes on his bonce!

If you are looking to exert external influence on the outcome here, then it seems to me you are going the wrong way about it.

You are right that an early announcement can only be a good thing for all concerned (and I hope the potential fans who stand to lose out don't), but your posts assume the decision is only in the gift of one party. We all know it takes two to tango, and sometimes the dancers separate, move in different directions and one party or other drags a heel or stands apart and postures.

Jarkko's not even in the dancehall. Don't ask him whether to applaud or not. Maybe one of the dancers will wander out dripping with sweat and tell him how it went, maybe they won't.....One thing that is for sure is the dancers won't be breaking off midway through to give him a definitive.

[jarkko]

I think there is no point to continue this discussion until we have more information.
We are only forwarding information, not generating it.
Patrice already explained the sources our information is coming from (great to
have you joining us here, Patrice!)

Textatemp is a new member who joined this forum only four days ago. There
is always the risk that we get members who are working in somebody else's
favor behind their hidden identities, like trying to run a pressure campaign.
Probably he isn't, but it is always good to remember that people may have
different motives.

We have also another member here on the Forum who has not participated in
this discussion yet although he is the "director de comunicación del FIB Heineken".
Ernesto, maybe you could shed some light on this question?