The word and the voice of God

[Casey Butler]

To everybody I guess...

A little over four years ago when I began reading and understanding these books, I thought it would be different.

I recognized Muslims as the sacrificial lamb of our enlightenment, as generally the only religious believers around today prepared to die for their religion and their system of civilization that addresses the poor and needy adequately.

But what I thought would happen was that, as they died under Western guns and the guns of Israel, more and more of us in the West and Israel would be motivated to understand exactly why the conflict is taking place in the first place.

Of course, the reasons for the deep spiritual beliefs we see on both sides have originated within the holy books of both sides.

In other words, I felt that people, broken-hearted over the suffering and death being reported around them, in order to understand and resolve the ongoing conflicts caused by what is essentially the old argument between Isaac and Ishmael, would actually read the books for themselves rather than turn to the usual "scholars and theologians", "rabbis and popes" for enlightenment as to what's really happening.

But, and I suppose not really surprisingly considering everything God does is a surprise to me, the opposite has happened.

The more disastrous the news and the more suicide bombings and the more deaths on either side we hear about, in general the harder human hearts have become, and the more polarized the world has become, and the less importance the books explaining it all seem to have.

And these incredible books remain unopened, unexplained, even though more and more of us know, from simple hearsay, that little of what is happening between Islam, Christianity, and Judaism can be supported at all by the books all three religions claim as their Spiritual "authority".

But we know this:

Generally speaking, Muslims are not going to become Christians or Jews, Jews are not going to become Muslims or Christians, and Christians are not going to become Muslims or Jews. Few of these three will become Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Confucianist, or any other religion - and vice versa.

So the state of the world is this:

Spiritually we're all taken. There are fewer vacancies every day. Our Spiritual frontiers have been conquered. The world has run out of Spiritual "living space".

By a miraculous coincidence, the same is true of our physical living space, and the resources we need to sustain our living spaces while maintaining our "lifestyle" in a world where nearly all "lifestyles" differ...

This is the way it is. It cannot change without violence or miracles. We have nowhere else to go but to God, unless we continue on our present course of violent suppression of ideas and culture with the unspoken understanding that we are setting out to eradicate what we disagree with or are terrified of by violent means.

Muslim terrorists are anything but. They are defending their religion. They are guided by a book that scholars and theologians have twisted exactly as Christian and Jewish scholars have twisted their books in order to maintain the status quo within their limited sphere of influence.

Listening and teaching the universal nature of what is in all of these books would threaten the livelihood of the theologian, threaten the respect garnered from his/her followers by the scholar, so what is taught as Truth is really the parts of these books that cause elitism rather than enlightenment. Not to mention many complete inventions.

The corruption of these books is not unusual, it is caused by the most human failing we all suffer from, love for ourselves, our status, our families, our beliefs, and our unique cultures and traditions.

Only those who have been scattered by religion, those who have "escaped" as Ezekiel puts it, can understand the universal aspects of the God of Love taught in all of these books. God is not regional, but universal.. and all of these books testify to His Love for even the lowest of us.

We can understand them through the Key of David, the Psalms which define the dark prophetic metaphor used by the Prophets - including Jesus and Muhammad.

We can also understand them through the plain spoken Words used by the Prophets - including Moses, Christ and Muhammad.

The terrible, awful miracle is that we have gone this far, to where American troops kick down doors with women and children hiding behind them, to where Western civilization has nearly bankrupted itself economically, to where "civilized" nuclear powers have accused an entire religion of being capable of committing suicide to eradicate another, to where Israel has inflicted on Arab communities in Gaza and the West Bank living conditions that are indistuingishable from the conditions in the ghettos foisted on the Jews by Christianity.

The teachings of all these books have been perverted beyond recognition by those who teach them, who profit monetarily from them, growing rich from the healing of Spirits, and the religion of Islam is hardly the worst culprit. Religious leaders of Christianity and Judaism are given carte-blanche to corrupt the Words of God in any fashion they choose, as long the state approves, as long as believers will bow under the burdens placed on them.

...And as yet there are no congressional or parliamentary committees, no groups of respected secular academics, no grass roots secular groups dedicated to reading and understanding these books. They are books, after all, with beginnings and ends, and the moral of the story in each is the same.

In this day of accountability, nobody can hold religious leaders accountable except those outside of religion who can see what's happened by reading the books themselves. The religious are blinded to the words because of the teachings they have been indoctrinated into, by the faith they claim, and by the fellowship they share amongst fellow believers. For example, the point of the Sermon on the Mount is a "mystery", most Christians are taught, yet John Lennon articulated it's meaning perfectly in the song "Imagine". The religious hear only "no religion too". Spiritual beliefs run very deep, love and friendships can run as deep as well.

However, by "accountability" I don't mean holding them accountable through humankind's usual ways of tearing down, imprisoning, or humiliating whoever it is that has transgressed against us. For one thing, as illustrated by the thousands of martyrs we have watched sacrifice their lives on all sides recently, our usual ways won't work against the religious. They will die forever to defend themselves against persecution.

I mean accountability through total Love and Mercy shown by those of us whom the religious have scattered, as outlined in the books themselves - we are the doubters, the questioners, the naysayers waiting for proof. I mean accountability of all through Understanding and acknowledgment of the part all religions have played in world history - which will only come through an honest recognition of what our history would have been like without the Words in these books. Words faithfully carried forward by the religious, Words all have ignored up to now, Words that have put the fear of God into despots, kings, and emporers alike along mankind's long march through the inevitable "widowhood of every government".

Every form of government we've invented has failed humanity, and what we're seeing today is the last crisis, caused by governments of "We the People". There are no more frontiers. There is no more oil. There are no more mission fields. There is nowhere left to go but where somebody else already is.

If you are waiting for the Miracle to come, you can read about that Miracle in the books we have failed to listen to for thousands of years.

Jesus said:

"...The children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."

This is our generation. This is the generation of the children of this world, the deniers who asked for proof. This is the generation alive at this time when the fruits of our ways are manifest to everyone.

We children of the world who can still see and read Truth need to put forth one more burst of effort. Take one more step into what we think we've rationally and logically decided to deny.

Perhaps we can show Real Mercy to the Light Bearers, the children of light who have been at our doors with their bugles and their drums, sending invitations to us for they knew not what, sending invitations because they knew in their hearts that we children of this world are also Loved.

It's really wonderful what we will find, I know that much.

[john.m.lake]

Manna: What you've said about what you said seems true enough, but what you said about what I said is simply not true. I didn't only come to the defense of Islam. I was trying to show why I thought that there are members of each religion who would be tolerant and those that wouldn't. It's utter folly to think one group (maybe I should have said any group?) has some kind of monopoly on cruelty and intolerance, likewise on kindness and generosity.

I have never said that one group has a monopoly on cruelty and intolerance or Kindness and generosity. BUT – I have said – there is violence in Christianity ‘in spite of’ the words and actions of Jesus Christ – there is violence in Islam ‘because of’ the words and actions of Prophet Muhammad.

I mentioned terrorism as the example because it is the big fat scary thing that some seem to think Saddam Hussein and an evil bunch of Muslims invented on 9/11. (Even though the 9/11 guys were mostly Saudi, but that doesn't matter; what matters is that they were Muslim.) I was trying to mention some nastiness that had been perpetuated by each of the three religions up for discussion.

I also think Jesus & Mohamed were on the same ground, the same continent anyway, I don't know how even it was. They both managed to garner many followers, they both filled a need common to many in the time of their lives. I have never met either of them, and have no way of knowing if they were any more manifestation of God than any common person whose life has disappeared.

I would argue that the Terrorists are actually the one’s following the Islamic scripture to the letter. When it is written that ‘Unbelievers’ are the vilest of animals, that you should kill and behead ‘Unbelievers’ wherever you find them, that you should not be friends with Christians and Jews…. And these things are given as the word of ‘God’ – then – these are the children that you raise. More moderate Muslims have simply chosen to ignore the more unsavoury aspects of their faith – as have the Jews.

Well, I am sorry to have missed out on your enlightened views. I skimmed them, and thought I tended to find more areas where I thought we could agree, but I get the feeling here that you are seeing me as a petty annoyance.
Do you think there is a religion that is compatible with freedom?

No, you are no annoyance. No, but some religions are more compatible than others.

The Jewish God is all that is and all that isn't. The Christian God is the God of all other Gods. Think you're God is bigger than my God?

These Gods are only ‘part’ of the God I speak of. The Jewish God exists outside of the known Universe – The Christian God is the Jewish God. The God I speak of.. there is nothing outside.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "'The point of Power' is in the present." I don't know if we are here to learn and grow as spiritual beings. I can only bring myself to speak for myself, and what feels right for me. I am here to try to learn everything. If I learn, growth is unavoidable.

Reality is created with your thoughts, imagination, feelings, focus and beliefs. Your thoughts and beliefs have a fundamental effect on all that is around you.. they are as real, as alive as the flowers in a garden. You can not always think 'Happy thoughts' any more that you could 'always' think sad thoughts... But you can indeed 'Change the World' if you understand that the point of power is in the present and believe that you create your own reality with your thoughts, imagination, feelings, focus and beliefs.

[john.m.lake]

"There's a blaze of light in every word...", "Sanctify them with thy Truth, thy Word is Truth..."

The words you are typing are not from the Qur'an. The Hadith is like the Talmud, like the conclusions of the Vatican, like the invented doctrines of all religions... Though based on the Words of Prophets, obviously some misunderstanding creeps in when people make money from interpreting what God intends to interpret for each of us.

God through His Prophets speaks to our hearts.

What is the condition of your heart?

We have to read the words for ourselves, hearsay or the teachings of others who make their living from interpreting the "mysteries" in these books will not suffice.

I have been called a liar, which is basically what you are saying though I know your intentions are good, so many times - for simply pointing out that these books are the way to enlightenment - it's amazing how much it still hurts. But I have to plow on...

I stand by my "testimony" that the Qur'an is from God through Muhammad, as much as the Gospel is from God through Jesus, and the Torah is from God through Moses, and the Lotus Sutra is from God through... ... ...

It's the truth, I didn't come here to fool ya.

My heart is strong. The violence I mention is indeed within the Koran’s pages my brother…. The fighting of non Muslims to submission or conversion, the cutting off of heads and hands and finger tips of the ‘Unbelievers’ , fight those that believe not in God nor in the last day, Great benefits in the afterlife for fighting and dying for Islam, Desire for death is the only way to demonstrate true belief, Muslims who refuse to fight will be punished by God, Muslims who want the war against non-Muslims to stop are hypocrites, Apostates should be executed if they resist the Muslim armies, Muhammad controls the spoils of war and keeps a portion, Don't be friends with non-Muslims, Women have less rights, lower legal status than men…. These are all things commanded by the Prophet who spoke for God.

Do not hold the words of ‘anyone’ above your own inner Knowledge and Understanding. Be wary of anyone that tells you their way is the only way and that you will be brutally punished for veering from the path.

[Manna]

Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
(or, in YLT - do you have a favourite translation?)
A witch thou dost not keep alive.

[john.m.lake]

Manna: Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
(or, in YLT - do you have a favourite translation?)
A witch thou dost not keep alive.
Exodus 22:18

Words of nonsense.

NO religion, no system of thought is infallible and none should be followed blindly - Question 'every word' .

I do not have a favorite translation. Do you have a specific answer you were looking for or a more specific question?

[Casey Butler]

"Do not hold the words of ‘anyone’ above your own inner Knowledge and Understanding. Be wary of anyone that tells you their way is the only way and that you will be brutally punished for veering from the path. [/color]

If indeed all of us combined are part of God as Jesus taught, are we not brutally punishing ourselves if we defy gravity and jump off of cliffs?

Humankind is defying the Law of Love and suffering the consequences, but the consequences are - and always have been - self-inflicted.

We could only know that because there is a God of Good whom we are part of, a God of Good who has guided all of the prophets to guide us to this point in history.

I'm not succeeding at my efforts to communicate what I'd like to you. I apologize.

Keep questioning everything, totally, I'm all for that, don't you see...

Via con Dios.

Casey

[Casey Butler]

Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
(or, in YLT - do you have a favourite translation?)
A witch thou dost not keep alive.

Hi Manna,

There's a better one than that...

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity (her)." [KJV-Bible - Deuteronomy 25:11-12]

This is so specific, it's hard not to picture a specific situation Moses found himself in at some point.

Hopefully that first woman was spared, since the commandment didn't exist as yet.

The best one in the Bible though, I think, is the following:

"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out (the inhabitants of) the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." [KJV-Bible - Judges 1:19]

Iron stops God?

From this the prophets picked up on "iron" as just the sort of "kryptonite" that would blunt the power of the Tyrant-Killer God who was "with" Judah that day.

So we read in the prophets about the "Rod of Iron" that breaks into pieces all that the Tyrant-Killer God attempts to establish, from nations to empires to entire religions...

Which Rod of Iron is wielded by Jesus who taught all who hear the Gospel that we're Loved equally by God, with equal rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, giving us all self-worth before God, so empowering every rebel in history, so ensuring the eventual impotence of that Tyrant-Killer God, and our eventual enlightenment as to who the Tyrant-Killer God is.

Consequently, every Christian denomination founded on stifling doctrine of the Tyrant-Killer God, taking free Spirits into the captivity of "Babylon", also carries with it the seeds of its own destruction in the form of the Gospel itself.

Love breaks hate and fear into little, tiny, ineffective pieces - eventually.

Thomas Jefferson submitted the following motto to be the motto on the Great Seal of the United States:

"REBELLION TO TRYANTS IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD"

It was rejected. Nevertheless, thanks partly to his Declaration of Independence it's here we've got the range and the machinery for change, and it's here we've got the Spiritual thirst. Democracy is coming to the USA first...

...Eventually.

[Remigius]

Hello John,

Welcome to the music and poetry of Leonard ! I was struck by your words saying that
your belief is that God is everything and that nothing exist what is not God. The (false) idea
of mankind that God is separated from us ( or "desires" something from us people ) causes
separation between people, and therefore war, poor sharing of food, lack of healthcare and so on.
Have you ever heard of Neale Donald Walsch, most likely you did, if not I recommend you
from the bottom of my heart to read one of his books ( or even better, all of them .... )

Back to the music though, Leonard will be performing in Amsterdam, next to my hometown,
ticketsales starts tomorrow, so wish me luck

Very best regards !

Remi

[john.m.lake]

Casey: If indeed all of us combined are part of God as Jesus taught, are we not brutally punishing ourselves if we defy gravity and jump off of cliffs?

Humankind is defying the Law of Love and suffering the consequences, but the consequences are - and always have been - self-inflicted.

We could only know that because there is a God of Good whom we are part of, a God of Good who has guided all of the prophets to guide us to this point in history.

I'm not succeeding at my efforts to communicate what I'd like to you. I apologize.

Keep questioning everything, totally, I'm all for that, don't you see...

Via con Dios.

No Casey, you are succeeding in your communication. It is I, who has failed you. BUT – since the truth is a combination of everything – my failure is moot. Religions are only the different views of the Human Psyche – Islam is so violent simply because Christianity is so gentle. – You just need to choose what path you wish to explore – one of them, all of them or none of them. I chose to go back, back to the world : )

One thing that history has surely taught us is that all of the prophets that have graced us with their presence were indeed fallible. That it is why it is important to not just accept every written word as the truth to end all truth. That is why we need to be wary of anyone that tells you their way is the only way and that you will be brutally punished for veering from the path.

Of Course, Other men created the religion of 'Christianity' and added whatever information they believed to be beneficial. BUT - the 'religion' was already started as Jesus roamed the land... His Teachings spread about and moved beyond the OT. The original listeners were the first to hear this 'new religion'... of course it was not called 'Christianity' and all 'of the pieces' of the faith were not in place - but - the religion had it's beginnings with his teachings. In any case - everyone needs to look inside more for the answers and not put 'all' of your trust in the written word - because of those very fallible prophets. In my search I went to the very foundation, the very beginning, the very teachings of the prophet, the very footprints of Jesus Christ - THIS - is the 'true spirit' of the religion... before too many cooks spoiled the broth.

Oh.. just picked up two new albums – ‘The Future’ AND ‘Songs of Love and Hate’ – haven’t listened yet…. : )

[john.m.lake]

Hello John,

Welcome to the music and poetry of Leonard ! I was struck by your words saying that
your belief is that God is everything and that nothing exist what is not God. The (false) idea
of mankind that God is separated from us ( or "desires" something from us people ) causes
separation between people, and therefore war, poor sharing of food, lack of healthcare and so on.
Have you ever heard of Neale Donald Walsch, most likely you did, if not I recommend you
from the bottom of my heart to read one of his books ( or even better, all of them .... )

Back to the music though, Leonard will be performing in Amsterdam, next to my hometown,
ticketsales starts tomorrow, so wish me luck

Very best regards !

Remi

Hi Remi… Thank you for the welcome : )

No, I have never heard of Neale Donald Walsch – but – I will try to check out his work. I am not much of a reader anymore though – I’d rather watch the movie.. : )

I love Amsterdam – Very Beautiful city and friendly people. My wife and I have been there 9 times in the last 8 years. We go for two weeks every May. I saw Leonard was playing there several weeks after we leave – darn it!!!! And I don’t see any U.S. dates yet. Good luck getting your tickets!!! Enjoy your Day.

[Remigius]

Hi John,

Thanks for your kind words, and a very nice day to you too !

[Manna]

yes, of course, it's all there. It's all everywhere. That's all.

[Casey Butler]

yes, of course, it's all there. It's all everywhere. That's all.

It's not here... Unfortunately there are no channels of the poor into the bedrooms of the rich anymore.

[Casey Butler]

yes, of course, it's all there. It's all everywhere. That's all.

It's not here... Unfortunately there are no channels of the poor into the bedrooms of the rich anymore.

Or fortunately....

I guess it depends on your outlook... LOL

Casey

[john.m.lake]

Just some album reviews from a new listener:

Songs of Love and Hate: Good album - BUT - I believe I have been spoiled by having my first Cohen experience be the Essential....

The Future: Great Album - It's no wonder that Leonard chose several of the songs here for inclusion on Essential...

The Essential Leonard Cohen: Masterpiece! There is not one song here that I do not Love - that has never happened to me with the purchase of any other album.

Part of me feels sad that I just found Leonard's music recently... BUT... everything happens when it should. Another part of me is happy and excited because I have so much more exploration and discovery before me. I feel blessed to have found these words and music while Leonard is still with us... for the day he does leave for the great beyond, will be a day of mourning for the world.