"Misery´s the river of the world"
the newest Tom Waits cd seems to have lots in commen with Leonard Cohens sign world. I wonder if they ever met.
Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen
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peter danielsen
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm
That's true, LC said that in various interviews during Ten New Songs promotion. One journalkist was even in his house in LA and saw that he only has few Tom's CDs.
I only have Alice, not Blood Money. On which one you think, Peter? I will buy the second CD afetr summer vacation.
Bye
I only have Alice, not Blood Money. On which one you think, Peter? I will buy the second CD afetr summer vacation.
Bye
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
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peter danielsen
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm
tom waits and cohen
Ive bought blood money wich i believe is really great, and the i´ve listened to many of his older material. I find it wild and dark and filled with great humour
"warm beer, cold women"
"warm beer, cold women"
Hi Peter,
I remember that phrase. When a woman learned that I liked Leonard, and actually knew who he is, she said, "If you like Leonard, you'll also like Tom Waits" and played some music of his for me. I recall my former husband also mentioning Tom in that regard, i.e. akin to Leonard. So, with the songs she played, I did hear the similarity that she referred to, yet even still, the others always feel like not a cheap imitation exactly, though some do, though somehow still not quite as authentic/original/all that.
The only photo I remember from one of the tapes I heard was of him in black and white leaning against an old car, maybe with his arms folded[?] Which tape is that, and does it have the song with "warm beer, cold women" on it? Great phrase, by the way....how many men have dealt with that?
~Lizzytysh
I remember that phrase. When a woman learned that I liked Leonard, and actually knew who he is, she said, "If you like Leonard, you'll also like Tom Waits" and played some music of his for me. I recall my former husband also mentioning Tom in that regard, i.e. akin to Leonard. So, with the songs she played, I did hear the similarity that she referred to, yet even still, the others always feel like not a cheap imitation exactly, though some do, though somehow still not quite as authentic/original/all that.
The only photo I remember from one of the tapes I heard was of him in black and white leaning against an old car, maybe with his arms folded[?] Which tape is that, and does it have the song with "warm beer, cold women" on it? Great phrase, by the way....how many men have dealt with that?
~Lizzytysh
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peter danielsen
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm
Warm beer and cold women
Dear lizzytysh(is that your name?)
All men deal with warm beer and cold women. I don´t know why but often when man is dumped by a women, and he feels the worst and most tormented, many women seems to react coldly to the pain in his eyes. Maybe its because he had one to many ( beers), but actually I believe it is because most women cannot stand men when they are weak: "A man never got a woman back, not by begging on his knees".
Maybe the reason for men not opening up about there sorrows is that woman want to be with the strong male, not the crying little boy.
Of course Leonard Cohen has opened up about his sorrows, but he is a Hit, a guro, a saint , so women will give themselves to him anyhow.
That´s why I formed a band, I like cold beer and warm women better.
All men deal with warm beer and cold women. I don´t know why but often when man is dumped by a women, and he feels the worst and most tormented, many women seems to react coldly to the pain in his eyes. Maybe its because he had one to many ( beers), but actually I believe it is because most women cannot stand men when they are weak: "A man never got a woman back, not by begging on his knees".
Maybe the reason for men not opening up about there sorrows is that woman want to be with the strong male, not the crying little boy.
Of course Leonard Cohen has opened up about his sorrows, but he is a Hit, a guro, a saint , so women will give themselves to him anyhow.
That´s why I formed a band, I like cold beer and warm women better.
Very true Peter re' "Of course Leonard Cohen has....."
I think I read that LC had only a couple of Tom Waits CDs and a couple of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan CDs (Qawwali music). He also mentions in the Reyjavik interview that whenever he goes to a new city the local country music station is the first one that he tries to find.
I hope to be able to appreciate Tom Waits one day but as yet his singing style poses a stumbling block.
Lizzytysh....I have a handful of artistes that I listen to and they all sound equally genuine and unique in their own ways. LC is only one of that handful.
I think I read that LC had only a couple of Tom Waits CDs and a couple of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan CDs (Qawwali music). He also mentions in the Reyjavik interview that whenever he goes to a new city the local country music station is the first one that he tries to find.
I hope to be able to appreciate Tom Waits one day but as yet his singing style poses a stumbling block.
Lizzytysh....I have a handful of artistes that I listen to and they all sound equally genuine and unique in their own ways. LC is only one of that handful.
Hi Peter,
Lizzytysh is my name [consistently
] for posting here, yes .
Well, now, that's a whole different topic altogether, isn't it? However, I know you get the cold beer from the bar waitress when you're in the band. However, is warm women what you really get? Or hot, groupie women, seeking you for "all the wrong reasons?" Or, does it matter?
That widely-held presumption tends to be erroneous. If you're talking about women who come after the dumping woman, the "coldness" you perceive may be the inability/unknowing of how to respond to your pain in that moment; or perhaps the ego-feeling that they should be the solution to your pain, and why do you want to keep talking about this other woman? I'm not really sure, but I really don't feel that women are oblivious to/disinterested in men's pain. Leonard has become a guru of sorts; however, he's still had to deal with the personal rejection that created the material for the songs.
If you're talking about getting it back right with the woman who has only coldness in her eyes, while you have pain in yours, it could be that by that point, the coldness is her only option, as well as her shield, to keep from being drawn back into a situation, that by that point she has already determined to be detrimental to her.
And, of course, the pain that gets expressed after too many beers is also somewhat suspect. Some women feel reluctant to get involved with that scenario, fearing perhaps that one's [in this case the man talking about his sorrows behind too many beers] drinking tendencies may be part of the cause.
This seems as good a place as any to share something I just received from a friend. I'm very drawn to the Native Indian cultures and this is phrased in those terms, and makes a very good point, one worth sharing:
Lizzytysh is my name [consistently
] for posting here, yes . Well, now, that's a whole different topic altogether, isn't it? However, I know you get the cold beer from the bar waitress when you're in the band. However, is warm women what you really get? Or hot, groupie women, seeking you for "all the wrong reasons?" Or, does it matter?
That widely-held presumption tends to be erroneous. If you're talking about women who come after the dumping woman, the "coldness" you perceive may be the inability/unknowing of how to respond to your pain in that moment; or perhaps the ego-feeling that they should be the solution to your pain, and why do you want to keep talking about this other woman? I'm not really sure, but I really don't feel that women are oblivious to/disinterested in men's pain. Leonard has become a guru of sorts; however, he's still had to deal with the personal rejection that created the material for the songs.
If you're talking about getting it back right with the woman who has only coldness in her eyes, while you have pain in yours, it could be that by that point, the coldness is her only option, as well as her shield, to keep from being drawn back into a situation, that by that point she has already determined to be detrimental to her.
And, of course, the pain that gets expressed after too many beers is also somewhat suspect. Some women feel reluctant to get involved with that scenario, fearing perhaps that one's [in this case the man talking about his sorrows behind too many beers] drinking tendencies may be part of the cause.
This seems as good a place as any to share something I just received from a friend. I'm very drawn to the Native Indian cultures and this is phrased in those terms, and makes a very good point, one worth sharing:
"One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that was going on inside himself. He said, "My son, it is between 2 wolves."
"One is evil: Anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego...
The other is good: Joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,
kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith..."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his
grandfather, "Which wolf wins?"
The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one I feed."
So, back to you, are you finding your band approach to work more successfully for you in the heartbreak arena?
~Lizzytysh
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peter danielsen
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm
The heartbreak arena
Its not true that the women you get when you form a band are groupies. I believe that woman prefer men who display some sort of leadership. Who stand up and say : This is a person speaking. Thats why most women choose better educated men, welthier men, more popular men, famous men.( StephenKing: Women wanna fuck fame). And offcourse then also men who are able to share the deeper emotional states of life.
Now since I love women I have long ago decided not to resign and go weeping, I decided to educate myself, cut my heart out and boil it, till I realized how pain really felt. Then I could blow my trumpet at the heartbreak arena, in the great duo of the sexes.
"you go your way
I go your way too"
Now since I love women I have long ago decided not to resign and go weeping, I decided to educate myself, cut my heart out and boil it, till I realized how pain really felt. Then I could blow my trumpet at the heartbreak arena, in the great duo of the sexes.
"you go your way
I go your way too"
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Sohbet
Men's pain
Dear Peter, I hope your boiled heart is not too painful, but I think your feeling is good. We all have to try to imagine one another's pain. This approach is especially helpful to the difficulties of men and women when they try to understand one other. In one of Leonard's poems, he said ...the last time that I saw him/he was trying hard to get/a woman's education/but he's not a woman yet. In another place he speaks of the man asleep and the woman being born. I have always felt that such words as these allude to a man's growing awareness of the need to understand women by acknowledging the feminine within himself, since we are alll composed of both male and female hormones, sensibilities, and so, mixed in different proportions. Of course, women need to acknowledge the authenticity of men's feelings as well.
Hi Peter,
It sounds like you've done well by yourself with your intent to do something with your life. The only thing I might add something to is that when Stephen King made his comment, my sense is that he was making an observation, though not necessarily a recommendation. It's true that some women are really drawn to all of the above, and a number of "country-club" women reportedly live out their lives in quiet desperation of the results...to the extent that there's a dubbing to that effect. They go for the fame and the success, and the personal comfort they can enjoy as a result from it, along with [via the reflection-effect and "defining" themselves in terms of/in the shadow of a man] the social recognition and enjoyment of social status as a result, thereby increasing their own sense of self through it. They've reportedly often been willing to endure a number of dissatisfactions [i.e continuous infidelity; various abuses, i.e. physical, mental, emotional, verbal; extreme control issues, i.e. total dependency on their partner for spending money; etc.] just to sustain it. There's a case at hand in our local area, where a woman remains married to a particular, carousing judge, as she is known to simply enjoy too much being Mrs. ________ ________. She does her Woman's Club thing, her country club thing, etc. and endures ongoing infidelity, while she enjoys the financial freedom and social status.
Then [back to the "country-club" set], there they are in their afternoon trysts with the golf caddy/bartender/whomever....trying to gain their self-esteem and self-worth that way, and looking for some "meaning" in their lives. This is not to say that all women are like that when they end up in relationship with a successful, famous, etc. man.....for that's simply not true. And I certainly don't mean to pick on "country-club" women. However, the strongest action verb in Stephen's comment is also key, an excellent example being the Monica/Bill situation....and what is it of "true" "value" that either got out of it? That's the point I'm making. There is certainly a "sexiness" that accompanies power, even documented in some studies with the higher testosterone levels of powerful men.
However, it does sound like you have filtered and ferreted out the good from the mere groupies in your situation. Hopefully, once you become [potentially] married, you will continue with your music, lest anyone ever accuse you of having used music to get the girl vs. playing music for your sheer love of music. I agree that women appreciate men who are willing to take a stand....particularly on their behalf.*
A humorous quote from one of your "fellow" musicians that you might appreciate [if you've never read/heard it before]:
[quote]
"Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house." ~ Rod Stewart
QUOTE ENDS HERE, though I can't get the Quote option to work to indicate that!
~Lizzytysh
It sounds like you've endured enough pain and deserve the happiness you appear to be finding. I wish you well in that.
*The two situations that spring to mind with that are with Leonard and with John Lennon. More recently, I read an interview that Leonard conducted with/of Rebecca. In it, he said to her that in his opinion, she is the most underrated actress of today. The article ~ a most excellent one, which is not difficult to imagine its being ~ is available to anyone who joins Marie's site SpeakingCohen.
The other situation was at a fundraising concert that I attended, wherein John Lennon and Yoko Ono showed up unannounced [though I heard the rumour, enroute to the show itself, that they might come....but the organizers didn't want people coming for the "wrong" reasons]. Anyway, as they sang together, the audience began to "boo" Ono....facing each other, with their faces 12" apart, they continued to sing...to one another, until finally, the audience was shamed into silence, realizing that their opinions in these two people's lives were irrelevant. At the end, John and Yoko righteously did not return for an encore. That was one of the more dynamic "actions speak louder than words" examples of taking a stand of support on behalf of another.
It sounds like you've done well by yourself with your intent to do something with your life. The only thing I might add something to is that when Stephen King made his comment, my sense is that he was making an observation, though not necessarily a recommendation. It's true that some women are really drawn to all of the above, and a number of "country-club" women reportedly live out their lives in quiet desperation of the results...to the extent that there's a dubbing to that effect. They go for the fame and the success, and the personal comfort they can enjoy as a result from it, along with [via the reflection-effect and "defining" themselves in terms of/in the shadow of a man] the social recognition and enjoyment of social status as a result, thereby increasing their own sense of self through it. They've reportedly often been willing to endure a number of dissatisfactions [i.e continuous infidelity; various abuses, i.e. physical, mental, emotional, verbal; extreme control issues, i.e. total dependency on their partner for spending money; etc.] just to sustain it. There's a case at hand in our local area, where a woman remains married to a particular, carousing judge, as she is known to simply enjoy too much being Mrs. ________ ________. She does her Woman's Club thing, her country club thing, etc. and endures ongoing infidelity, while she enjoys the financial freedom and social status.
Then [back to the "country-club" set], there they are in their afternoon trysts with the golf caddy/bartender/whomever....trying to gain their self-esteem and self-worth that way, and looking for some "meaning" in their lives. This is not to say that all women are like that when they end up in relationship with a successful, famous, etc. man.....for that's simply not true. And I certainly don't mean to pick on "country-club" women. However, the strongest action verb in Stephen's comment is also key, an excellent example being the Monica/Bill situation....and what is it of "true" "value" that either got out of it? That's the point I'm making. There is certainly a "sexiness" that accompanies power, even documented in some studies with the higher testosterone levels of powerful men.
However, it does sound like you have filtered and ferreted out the good from the mere groupies in your situation. Hopefully, once you become [potentially] married, you will continue with your music, lest anyone ever accuse you of having used music to get the girl vs. playing music for your sheer love of music. I agree that women appreciate men who are willing to take a stand....particularly on their behalf.
* A humorous quote from one of your "fellow" musicians that you might appreciate [if you've never read/heard it before]:
[quote]
"Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house." ~ Rod Stewart
QUOTE ENDS HERE, though I can't get the Quote option to work to indicate that!
~Lizzytysh
It sounds like you've endured enough pain and deserve the happiness you appear to be finding. I wish you well in that.
*The two situations that spring to mind with that are with Leonard and with John Lennon. More recently, I read an interview that Leonard conducted with/of Rebecca. In it, he said to her that in his opinion, she is the most underrated actress of today. The article ~ a most excellent one, which is not difficult to imagine its being ~ is available to anyone who joins Marie's site SpeakingCohen.
The other situation was at a fundraising concert that I attended, wherein John Lennon and Yoko Ono showed up unannounced [though I heard the rumour, enroute to the show itself, that they might come....but the organizers didn't want people coming for the "wrong" reasons]. Anyway, as they sang together, the audience began to "boo" Ono....facing each other, with their faces 12" apart, they continued to sing...to one another, until finally, the audience was shamed into silence, realizing that their opinions in these two people's lives were irrelevant. At the end, John and Yoko righteously did not return for an encore. That was one of the more dynamic "actions speak louder than words" examples of taking a stand of support on behalf of another.
Yes, Peter and Sohbet, you're right that the validity of men's feelings must be acknowledged. In fact, I've heard/read that despite "popular folklore," breakups are more difficult emotionally on the men than on the women....probably for myriad reasons, such as not being able to openly express their pain and cry, as women do with one another during such times; feeling compelled to maintain that hard, "together," "I'm fine....it's her problem" exterior, which simply puts more pressure on them internally, and again, with no release, so the pressure only continues to build like in the piece of cooking equipment known as a pressure cooker....hmm, perhaps "boiling the heart" without even having to remove it. In case it did not come across in my original Post[s] to you, Peter, I do understand the pain of which you speak. And, again, I am sincere when I say that I hope your alternative approach is helping with avoiding more of it. You sound like you deserve a warm woman. For one thing, you're willing to own your pain. That, in itself, speaks volumes.
~Lizzytysh
~Lizzytysh
Sohbet,
I forgot to include in my posting to you and Peter that I agree on men/women acknowledging the hormones and sensibilities of one another in themselves, as you say, in varying degrees and combinations. It would seem that the lives of many innocent men, here and worldwide, would be spared if we received this learning early on in our lives, so that by the time we came to recognize it in ourselves and others, we would already be accepting of it. I say men because society typically tends to be more militant when it comes to men than women, often considering the latter more of an erotic situation. Homophobia accompanied by ridicule, scorn, and homicide; as well as self-loathing, confusion, fear, and shame, accompanied by depression and suicide ~ could very well at least possibly be alleviated in the area of sexuality. You made an excellent point when you addressed that issue.
Just as you've cited Leonard's words, it has always seemed to me that Leonard has always been quite aware and accepting of this reality.
~Lizzytysh
I forgot to include in my posting to you and Peter that I agree on men/women acknowledging the hormones and sensibilities of one another in themselves, as you say, in varying degrees and combinations. It would seem that the lives of many innocent men, here and worldwide, would be spared if we received this learning early on in our lives, so that by the time we came to recognize it in ourselves and others, we would already be accepting of it. I say men because society typically tends to be more militant when it comes to men than women, often considering the latter more of an erotic situation. Homophobia accompanied by ridicule, scorn, and homicide; as well as self-loathing, confusion, fear, and shame, accompanied by depression and suicide ~ could very well at least possibly be alleviated in the area of sexuality. You made an excellent point when you addressed that issue.
Just as you've cited Leonard's words, it has always seemed to me that Leonard has always been quite aware and accepting of this reality.
~Lizzytysh
"Misery's the river of the world... Everybody row, everybOdy row..." Haha, that's a heavy one. I love the album, The Part You Throw Away is really brilliant, and the last track, don't remember the title, with the first line: "I always play russian roulette in my head..." Tom rules.
Anyway, there's a new music magazine out, don't remember its name, but it's one of the thick ones, with a large interview with Tom Waits. He names and comments all his favourite albums, and Leonard Cohen's I'm Your Man is inthere... Pass the Press Stop and check it out.
Anyway, there's a new music magazine out, don't remember its name, but it's one of the thick ones, with a large interview with Tom Waits. He names and comments all his favourite albums, and Leonard Cohen's I'm Your Man is inthere... Pass the Press Stop and check it out.