a monk!!

[fredwerty]

why did leonard become a monk?

[John Etherington]

To the best of my knowledge, to be close to his friend and teacher Roshi. Also, because he needed the discipline and ritual of the
monastic lifestyle, during the time that he was on Mount Baldy.

All the best, John E

[daka]

Re Leonard's manhood > musehood > monkhood >

I think this question is well answered by Leonard in two places

1) http://www.webheights.net/speakingcohen/sl2001.htm (interview)

2) I'm Your Man Tribute/DVD/Video/documentary (2006)

That documentary was very powerful, and in it Leonard's songs are performed by other people like U2 (with Leonard), Julie and Pearla, and many others. I found it extremely well-done... looked to me like Bono took a personal interest in the project. So Len sings Len, others sing Len, others talk about Len, and Len talks about Len. The most memorable parts of the production, for me, were Len talking about his Monkhood process, entering, abiding, and leaving, and also the cover of "Anthem" by Julie and Pearla which I personally found and still find spine-tingling. (And of course Bono's obvious incredible devotion to Leonard which transcends the norms of musical appreciation).

The "spin" on his disrobing was that he tried hard but "Thank God" he discovered that he wasn't cut out for monkhood. Most holy beings that I know are extremely humble and self-effacing. An equally probable position is that maybe he got enlightened (or at least highly realized) and like Moses came down the mountain with his tablet... "10 New Songs"

(Slightly more chilled than Moses, from what I remember about Moses)

I looked up the definition of self-effacing and here is what I found:

(This is exactly how Leonard describes the effect that Roshi had on him in the I'm Your Man video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I paraphrase Leonard with my faulty memory... something like.. Roshi liked him for who he wasn't... which allowed who he was to disappear....

1. To cause to disappear (as anything impresses or inscribed
upon a surface) by rubbing out, striking out, etc.; to
erase; to render illegible or indiscernible; as, to efface
the letters on a monument, or the inscription on a coin.
[1913 Webster]

2. To destroy, as a mental impression; to wear away.
[1913 Webster]

Efface from his mind the theories and notions
vulgarly received. --Bacon.

Syn: To blot out; expunge; erase; obliterate; cancel;
destroy. -- Efface, Deface. To deface is to injure
or impair a figure; to efface is to rub out or destroy,
so as to render invisible.
[1913 Webster]

Leonard says that he was not a good monk (maybe spin for the tightrope walking down the mountain), but I suspect that he was an extremely good Buddhist and had the intended (or wished for) realizations, and then came down the mountain.

daka

[lizzytysh]

and like Moses came down the mountain with his tablet... "10 New Songs"

A very interesting reference to say the least, Daka.

Thank you for all the explanation re: self-effacing, too. Very enlightening [in the more typical sense].


~ Lizzy

[daka]

Has anyone noticed Leonard's ears, in particular, the earlobes, how unusually elongated they are?

I did a google search on "elongated ears Buddha" and the search revealed what I knew mostly already, that this is one on the signs of attainment.

Look at a few pictures of Leonard

Note his ears

then

Google it

daka

[Cate]

Daka, you have me looking at Leonard Cohen's ears when I'm supposed to be working. Wait a minute I have me looking at Leonard Cohen's ears when I'm supposed to be working.
They do look longer then when he was younger but isn't this natural?

I just liked this picture, wanted to see if it would post.
http://images.starpulse.com/AMGPhotos/p ... 0yk0ax.jpg

[daka]

Hi Cate

My apologies to your employer

I can so easily cause problems
without even trying!

Re Leonard's ears, it is mostly the recent profile pix that show the elongation, and also the recent videos. I will try and track one down and post it... after having seen this and noted it personally for quite some time, mysteriously, I can't easily find the ideal picture now!

Look at Leonard doing Tower of Song with U2 in "I'm Your Man" 2006 tribute video.... it is pretty easy to see Leonard's long lobes.

Re whether is natural or not, maybe do your own research project... look around at 70 year old earlobes and see if in your world this is "natural". Maybe Toronto is full of holy men?.. and holy women?

Seriously, I can't really state that this is any kind of proof regarding Leonard's attainments. I am just having fun!.. I find that proof in his lyrics, personally, and in his comportment generally, his skillful means, his ability to walk his particular spiritual tightrope, and also in the profound effect that he has on people (Look at this Forum, for example)

I'm with Bono, I believe that very few people are in his "league"... can't remember exactly how Bono said it... "very few people that occupy the ground that Leonard Cohen walks on".. "a rare individual"... he touches people... and teaches... that's what holy beings do.

daka

[John Etherington]

Of course, Bono has made every effort to occupy the ground that Leonard walks on!

[daka]

Of course, Bono has made every effort to occupy the ground that Leonard walks on!

I don't know much about Bono... I have been out of the music scene for 14 years... I only know something about Leonard of late, and a little about Dylan. If you are pointing to something, John that may be obvious to some people, succinctness may not be helpful for me. Maybe flesh-out your comment a little more here or PM?

If you are not pointing to something else all I can say is I hope we are all making "every effort to occupy the ground that Leonard walks on".

daka

[John Etherington]

Hi Daka,

I was just being sarcastic there, because many people see Bono as an opportunist who appends himself to other leading lights as a means of gaining further recognition. I think he generally means well, though, and I do like some of his music (but not "Hallelujah!).

All the best, John E

[Poor Alyosha]

I know very little about this, but I have read that the Buddha's earlobes became elongated before his renunciation, during his princely life. It was the custom of royalty in those long-distant days to wear heavily jewelled earrings, which would permanently stretch the earlobes.

As regards the life of a monk, I'm reminded of a comment Thomas Merton once heard from his spiritual advisor and recorded in his journal. It went something like this: "It is not the business of a monk to change the world. It is the business of a monk to weep."

Mr Cohen, admirably, has made it his business not to change the world, but to weep.

[Paula]

i always thought that your ears and nose continue to grow and the older you get the bigger your ears and nose become. I didn't realise it was some sort of sign of atainment. If that is the case there are a lot of people where I live who appear to have reached attainment

[daka]

"It is not the business of a monk to change the world. It is the business of a monk to weep."

On one level this statement is correct. On another it is incorrect.

Sure... I can't try to fix the 'world' as you say... this would be silly. And I need to feel compassion.

But

How many worlds are there? An essential difference between Buddhism and Catholicism is that, in Buddhism, the understanding is that each person experiences his subjective 'world' and that the 'world of one person is not the same 'world' appearing to the mind of another person.

If I intend to change your 'world' I am in trouble. If I intend to change the world that is appearing to my mind I am on the right path.

Sutra teachings enable us to do this in one way, by what Hank Williams Jr. calls 'Attitude Adjustments' (what Buddhists call 'realizations') in his song of that name. By changing our views, attitudes, opening our heart, attaining realizations, the world that is appearing to our mind can and does change. I have direct experience of this, it is not only theory. I think everyone has this experience to some extent, some more than others.

Tantra teachings are designed to radically replace the appearing problematic world with another more virtuous, more blissful reality. We are all hallucinating the world we are presently experiencing, psychotically, very much like the poor blokes we lock up when they 'see things', 'hear things' and 'do things' outside the norms of our conventional hallucinations. Tantra is only transferring this power of the mind so that instead of hallucinating a problematic world we can hallucinate a pure world.

So the Catholics' view of how the world exists supports that statement that Merton heard, so it may be an correct attitude for a monk to have generally but based on an incorrect view of how the 'world' exists.

Thomas Merton once said that the most powerful spiritual experience he had in his life was standing in front of a huge Buddha statue in Asia. He was drifting, slowly but surely, away from Catholicism, many people suspect.

cheers

daka

[daka]

I never have luck uploading pix so I will try this experiment again with PIC of Leonard's face with apparently elongated ears.

daka

[Cate]

Hi Daka

Sidetrack
Good job loading something - somethings better than nothing. Where is this picture taken - looks like your sitting pavement but I think I see water in the background. I can't see a picture without being curious - did you like it here? Was it nice?