leonardcohenforum.com

I considered putting this under "News," which it is ~ but didn't seem appropriate there. Phil Spector was detained and has just been arrested in relationship to the shooting death of a woman early this morning. The first thought that came to my mind when he was at the detained stage was the nature of his and Leonard's relationship during the making of Death of a Ladies Man.

Here is the complete news item from AP:

Phil Spector Arrested in Woman's Shooting
* He was at a home where the woman's body was found, authorities said. From Associated Press

Legendary record producer Phil Spector was arrested today for investigation of homicide after the body of a woman was found at a home in Alhambra, authorities said.

Spector, 62, was arrested at the home around 5 a.m., sheriff's Sgt. Joe Efflandt said. No other details were immediately released.

In his storied career, Spector produced such music greats as Tina Turner and the Ramones, and records for the Beatles, the Righteous Brothers and the Crystals.

Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1989, Spector created the "Wall of Sound" effect that involved overdubbing scores of musicians to create a massive roar, which changed the way pop records were produced.

Among his session players known as the "Wrecking Crew" were guitarist Glen Campbell, pianist Leon Russell, drummer Hal Blaine and the late Sonny Bono, who learned the producer's trade under Spector.

Spector produced a string of '60s hits, including the Crystals' "Da Doo Ron Ron" and "Then He Kissed Me," the Ronettes' "Be My Baby" and "Walking in the Rain," and Darlene Love's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" and "(Today I
Met) the Boy I'm Gonna Marry."

Spector married Ronnie Bennett, a member of the Ronettes. They divorced in 1974. He has five children.

Spector's father, Benjamin, committed suicide in 1949. Spector later visited the grave and used the inscription "To Know Him Was to Love Him" as the basis for a hit song.

Spector's last major album was "End of the Century," a 1980 collaboration with the Ramones. During the session, the late bassist Dee Dee Ramone said Spector pulled a gun on the band.

On NBC4 on the internet the following paragraph quoted Leonard Cohen.

"Spector worked on Leonard Cohen's 1977 album "Death of a Ladies Man."
'I never thought I'd give up that much control, Cohen said...I knew he was mad, but I thought his madness would be more adorable, on the ordinary, daily level,'...'I love the guy, but he's out of control.'"

I'm not sure if this is a recent quote or just something the reporter dug up from the past.

eeey

Brian Wilson's "greatest song in the universe" is "Be My Baby, by the great Phil Spector".
They go back a long way, as far as high school.
Brian sings it on his "Live at the Roxy" double album. He does it better than Spector.
Andrew.

Aside from the quote sounding familiar, my belief is that it's something from the past. Too much implication of presumed guilt, if current. Just not Leonard's style.

In the "Daily Mail".

"Working with Leonard Cohen in the seventies Spector once became so angry that he allegedly put a gun to the singer/songwriters head to get the desired vocal performance".

If he had done that to me I would have sounded like Demis Roussous

Dang......don't know who Demis Roussous is, but it sounds like he/she must sing in a falsetto.

Got it in one Liz even higher than Barry Gibb.

Oh good.....hate to miss out on a good joke .

THIS is your answer?

Paula made a joke about herself. She did not make a joke about a murdered woman.

~ seems I got it, though, and just the way it was meant. Paula using Leonard having a gun pointed at him for the basis of a joke [pretty good one, too]. Sure am glad I got it, not even having a clue. Imagine....and just to think of it, that pulling a gun on someone to make them sing "better."

Yep, very good, for recognizing it for what it was.......that was my answer.

Well, this has turned out to be inconvenient....having to reconstruct my replies after my cat joined me on my keyboard. May need to do individual ones instead of an all-in-one post. However, I'll at least start.

Pawn ~ You'll see whatever I write, if you read it.

Pathetic and rather predictable!?! My poor pun, begging for expression. Words lined up too perfectly to resist in ex-post-facto fashion. Hypocritical, mushy!?! Know you nothing of black humour; our dark side; our shadow selves? Are you to discount everyone who occasionally exhibits that part of their nature.....then discount us all. Alas, alack....there goes the human race.

Jurica makes an excellent point about cheap jokes.....after all, we are as likely to be born as to die; and as likely to die as to be born. Death should be exempt from puns? Your cheap joke should be better, more acceptable, than mine? And, as she said, "do try and stay alive"......[lest you become the next pun topic?] In truth, I don't see where she can be grouped in with me as making cheap jokes. Seems to me she made a rather serious point about the devaluation of life during these times. We should act so shocked at the "treatment" of this death when literally thousands die in horrific ways daily?

Then, here comes Midnight....missing the whole point with Georges' reference and analogy with chess. Huge conceptual leap for me to see his having named me Queen of the Forum.....his not even having mentioned the Forum, NOR made a pronouncement. What I did see, however, was his consistency with Pawn's own, self-selected moniker, and extending with it to the only female figure in that checquered neighborhood, the Queen, for whom being attacked by a Pawn is quite outside the realm of advisability, happening only in the most dire and hapless of circumstances. Truly not a wise move to be tried.

Then, possibly [not even necessarily] extending the Queen reference to include the one I've heard throughout my life in various forms and fashion, the Queen Elizabeth of England connection, to tie it all in with the implication of "Queen Elizabeth." Ahh.....not the News Midnight thought at all....and as Partisan said, even if it were, it still wouldn't be "News" even so. Yet, I still take exception [as always] on the lowly reference to Georges as a dog.

Ah, Godzilla....foaming at the mouth, simply too distasteful. Must be an ape thing. I don't do it.

However, yes, I do feel differently about making a pun [reportedly the "lowest form of humour" ~ though I've always enjoyed them , as have many other people I know ~ humoured types, in fact ], per words so perfectly aligned for doing so; ex-post-facto to the subjects and event; and about people I don't know and have never interacted with [and one of whom I've had a poor impression for awhile] ~ than I do about someone I have interacted with, personally "wishing" me dead.

And there you are, missing much of what occurred, as well. The pun's thrust was directed toward Spector.....the victim's fate respectfully addressed early-on with "this tragic event." Puns automatically act as a distancing mechanism.....ever heard of coping humour? Ask firemen, policemen, social workers, correctional personnel, medical-field workers, and probably even people in war zones [quite likely Jurica's very real reference]. Jean D'Arc may want to consider that possibility.

Fortunately, Leonard's happening upon any particular posting here is not a consideration for me. You're right, though, that he is a compassionate being. But then, so am I. So, what he would think of me if he knew me, would be what he thought of me if he knew me. Likewise, me of him. However, when it comes to black humour, dark sides, and shadow selves, I can only guarantee that he appreciates their all-encompassing reality on this plane.

Now, my pun......a good one, as puns go. More to it than the obvious; several entendres, in fact, all along the way.

As I said much earlier, my immediate thought upon hearing the news was of his and Leonard's relationship during the making of Death of a Ladies Man. After that thought, the first pun that occurred to me was accompanied by a sense of relief that the album's title was never ex-post-facto able to be punned [literally], with regard to Leonard, in that it now appears the capability was certainly there with Spector. Thoughts of personal and professional jealousy floated through my mind as I contemplated that scenario.

"Yes, perhaps this tragic event can duly be dubbed his latest, final production, Death of a Man's Lady."


(A) "Yes, perhaps" ~ perhaps he is guilty; perhaps he's not. Perhaps he will be charged [charges being brought require a higher level of proof than being detained or being arrested; even if charged, will he plead out; even if tried, will his attorneys lose ~ lest we forget O.J. [and whatever happened to Baretta's Robert Blake?]; and even if found guilty, will he lose his customary lifestyle or for long ~ after all, we are talking wealth and fame here....in a country where judgements in medical-malpractice [death] cases are based solely on the earning power and "relevance" to the community of the person whose life was lost. If you're poor, guess what.

Do I feel concern about Spector's "life in ruins"? No. For a man who wields a gun and imposes his power in such fashion, outcomes such as this remain predictable. Even if he's not [or weren't] guilty, this kind of outcome remains on the horizon. It rather goes with the territory.

(B) "this tragic event" ~ my concern for the victim, Lana, is contained in these words.

(C) "perhaps....can duly" ~ remains to be seen; if guilty and found guilty ~ and if despite money and fame, it results in the same losses for him, as it would with the "common man," then he may not be able to continue in his present career [or he may]

(D) "dubbed" ~ music-industry term

(E) "his latest, final" ~ definitely his latest, possibly his final; yet even if not, the production of Lana's death certainly is both for her.

(F) "production" ~ if he is guilty ~ [a] a phrase used here in the U.S. in regard to showing or pulling a gun is "produced," as in "he produced a gun" the gun he produced, produced the death [c] he is a producer, of music and of death; and even if he ultimately continues to produce music [which I would hope he didn't], this "final production [death]" was certainly that for her, via him. It may [hopefully] be his last production of a gun, as well, in that convicted felons are prohibited from having firearms.

(G) "Death of a Man's Lady" ~ the obvious inversion; plus the fact that the death was that of a woman; she may have been "his" lady or she may have been someone else's lady ~ doesn't say and doesn't matter which man.

So, Lowly Pawn, how could you consider this my "Lowly Pun"? A lot of area got covered with it, none favourable to Spector or the system. The victim, Lana, I feel sad about, as it seems she was a sincere woman trying to make the best of her [boggled?] life and then lost it to what appears to be an exploitive, ruthless, and self-obsessed player in the industry. Pulling a gun on Leonard narrowed the field in that perception.

Are you for real?

YOUR WORDS: "As I said much earlier, my immediate thought upon hearing the news was of his and Leonard's relationship during the making of Death of a Ladies Man. After that thought, the first pun that occurred to me was accompanied by a sense of relief that the album's title was never ex-post-facto able to be punned (literally), with regard to Leonard, in that it now appears the capability was certainly there with Spector....blah, blah, blah...)"

So, as long as it wasn't Leonard's guts all over the floor we can sigh with relief and let the punning begin.


You have no idea how much you reveal about yourself in your posts.

Lowly Pawn