leonardcohenforum.com

What's happening to this board? Screen names, most of them obviously additional pen names of the same person(s) pop up like windows on a cheap web site.

I know this doesn't happen for the first time. In the times following our "hell bent on war" thread there was a proliferation of "false users" as well. The board survived, the spectres vanished, the regular posters that might have participated in false flagging returned to their usual routine. I guess this time it might happen as well, but maybe not.

When looking at the current flood of screen names that are but emanations of maybe one, maybe a few, very few, real persons, however, I started to ask myself: "Why do I post here, why did I start posting here in the first place?"

There are so many message boards on the web, and many of them allow for the posting of poetry. I could have chosen any number of them, but I picked this one. And this wasn't a random decision. I didn't throw dice, or generate random numbers, but there were several real reasons.

One reason, of course, that my friend Babz had invited me to come here several months before I first logged in. And then - do I have to mention it? - there is the common interest in the works of Leonard Cohen that brought me here.

But I didn't rush in like a fool. Before I registered I followed the conversations of the posters, and I found out that this board was in a peculiar way different from most other boards. Whereas in most places users came and and, switched names, changed personalities like they were so many pieces of dirty underwear, thought in terms of single posts, or threads, rather than in terms of personae, here real persons were visible behind the screen names.

There was a consistency that transcended the limits of single posts or threads. It was recognizably the same person that one day posted this poem, and participated in a discussion about that topic the next day. Even those I couldn't immediately relate to were genuine.

We called ourselves the "Beautiful Losers". We were different groups, made up out of real individuals. Behind the scenes we learned more about each other, more or less favourable things, we created a "world wide web" of "beautiful losers". And - with the exception of personal secrets we sometimes shared "behind closed doors" - the relationships, and their changes were clearly visible, and they became as much parts of the personae that discussed here as the opinions we tentatively and / or apodictically ventured.

New people joined, some stayed, others didn't. Those that stayed became parts of the same nexus. Some, like me, stayed away for a while, then came back; others currently staying away, will hopefully return someday, like I did.

We all know that, so why am I telling all this?

The reason is that this great peculiarity of this board doesn't come without a minimum requirement of trust. In order to be the Forum we used to be we implicitely had to put faith in the genuineness of posters.

Imagine for a moment that suddenly someone proved that "lizzytysh" isn't really the Elizabeth we all know and respect, but a collective of, say twenty different writers! Or that Byron and Andrew McGeever really are the same person, a person that also posts as partisan and Tom Sakic! Or that linda_lakeside, Sandra, or LaurieAK were emanations of my mind, or tom.d.stiller of one of theirs'! (The persons behind the names I used will hopefully forgive me. You are genuine, I know. Even p. who I rarely agreed with is in his own peculiar way genuine. There are of course many more genuine posters, I just can't name everyone...)

Immediately this board would collapse. Maybe it could still exist as some random forum on http://www.leonardcohenforum.com. But it wouldn't be the Forum we came to anymore. At least it wouldn't be the Forum I came to. It wouldn't be the "lovely bunch of beautiful losers", it would be "just one of those boards", as meaningless as the others.

I'd soon quit, I'm sure. And I believe the spirit of this place would drive most of us away, then.

This requirement of trust, however, is endangered, when this proliferation of falsely flagged posters continues. I won't put the blame on any one poster. I believe I already said somewhere around here that every new screen name has to be presumed genuine until it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt it isn't.

Thus I won't accuse anyone in particular of not being genuine, but it is obvious that there are some people around who suffer from multiple posting-personality dementia. And this sort of dementia seems to be contagious.

It might seem like big fun to you, whoever you are, yes, you who posts under 7 or more screen names, to do what you do. But please try to consider this:

Maybe by following your course you bring some fun. But if everyone around here, or even a certain number of posters, did the same, the board wouldn't be a bit funnier. It would be dead.

Have you ever heard of Kant? The "categorical imperative"? Does this sound familiar to your probably well-trained mind: "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

You should be imaginative enough to see how the mechanism I tried to describe works. And you should have enough brains in your noodle to see that I'm right. And you should have the guts to simply stop. And you should be creative enough to find less dangerous forms of being funny.

You should have, by the way, enough guts, if you want a provocative thought to be discussed, to present the thought as a clever advocatus diaboli. If you prefer to post under a crazy screen name that doesn't allow to see a continuity in your posts, then harm is really on. Harm to the forum. Harm to this community.

You are more dangerous to this Forum than any nasty poster can ever be. A nasty poster might drive one contributor or the other away. You undermine the basic structure of this community.

This isn't, as I said, directed to anyone in particular. Those addressed will know. And hopefully act accordingly.

I had to say this, because I felt it had to be said. I'm aware that now the hordes of purposefully created posters will bash me. Or the few minds behind the numbers might even hypocritically make their puppets agree. I'll weather the storm. Be it by leaving this place I came to consider as part of a home. I'd regret having to do this.

Cheers
tom

you are right, ofcourse... on all accounts. including the one that says: it happened before, and it went away. they'll find it less funny in time, and they'll go away.

you are wrong about partisan, however - he also used alter ego once (remember Heretic?). but, unlike now, back then it served it's purpose. it was his way of saying: OK, you all think i'm a heretic if i don't blindly worship everything that is cohenesque, so i'll name myself accordingly.

the spirit of discussion often changes here. we have our 'what does this song mean' phases, then political discussions, then poetry experiments, then wise-ass arguments about who is smarter than who... i prefer some to the others, but i always remember in times of the ones i don't like, that weather will eventualy change, and all will be well again.

jurica wrote:you are wrong about partisan, however - he also used alter ego once (remember Heretic?). but, unlike now, back then it served it's purpose. it was his way of saying: OK, you all think i'm a heretic if i don't blindly worship everything that is cohenesque, so i'll name myself accordingly.

Dear jurica,

I remember "Heretic", of course, but p. didn't start endless discussions with himself following a maxim of "masturbation comes cheaper".

However, I can't share your optimistic stance. These things, in the past, didn't go away because someone got tired of them. And a change of topic is different from undermining the basic assumption that makes this community possible.

Cheers
tom

i so hope you are wrong.

jurica wrote:i so hope you are wrong.

So do I.

Hi Tom, thanks for your post. I have always loved this board, way before i ever started posting. lately I have been wondering what the hell is going on here. I can't say I know who is the person (or persons) who are assuming alter egos, although sometimes it is obvious, and I think the general trend in conversation quality has been downward (maybe even because of some of my conributions). I feel so disappointed when I visit these days, and it seems no-one posts anymore because of fear or boredom. Except some wacky attackers, who I can't make sense of.

I hope for better days.

i've tried to add some wind to the productive members of this forum by starting the FAQ answering.

let's put this crises behind us by working harder!

Insanitor wrote: I feel so disappointed when I visit these days, and it seems no-one posts anymore because of fear or boredom. Except some wacky attackers, who I can't make sense of.

I hope for better days.

Fear or boredom?

The genie is out of the bottle now. 'Fear' is truly one of the emotions encountered when considering a possible voluntary thought or two to give to the board.

It is sometimes like a serious version of the famous Faulty Towers sketch, "don't mention the war!"
Terrorists hit the US on 9/11.
Terrorists hit the UK for decades from across the Irish Sea.
The recent McCartney news event in the US, showed that support for the Republican Movement, from the wallets and purses of thousands of American supporters of the 'Irish' situation, has dramatically fallen away.
The falling away began after 9/11.
The discussions that followed the build up to the second Iraq war consisted of some of us saying that war is evil, and then we were attacked for not supporting Bush et al. The USA had been attacked on its own soil. Horrible events filled out TV screens as 9/11 took place. What did we know about Freedom? "If you're not with us, you're against us!"
Now, we have a mind shift in those who sent money for decades to men who killed thousands in the UK and Northern ireland.
At last, Americans have woken up to the fact that being at the end of a bombers itinerary is about innocent people being slaughtered.
Several of us counselled caution and gave facts in support of the horror that Bush et al were hell bent on creating.
We were 'blasted' by the venom and hate of those who had for once in their lives been on the receiving end. We told them what it was like and had been like for decades. We were branded as commies by some freedom thinkers.
During the second world war, my relatives hid in Anderson shelters in their gardens, every night for months, as Nazi bombers rained down death from the skies. We were told we didn't know what we were talking about. 9/11 was seen as an enormous horror visited on the US. Those of us who daily feared attacks from the IRA knew what it was like. We'd suffered such fear for decades. But our experiences counted for naught by comparison.

'Fear' is now out of the bottle and I for one am glad to acknowledge that I can discuss such fear.

However, should I be foolish enough to question the Bush agenda, I know that the usual flag waving, blinkered freedom thinkers will have another go at me.

This is not a Dylan site. But I remember singing his song as we protested against the Vietnam war. It took years before the politicians finally realised that "too many people have died."

Nobody won the war in Iraq. "Victory" was not accomplished. The exit strategy seems to be an ad hoc series of crisis management decisions. What a bloody mess.

And yes, we told you so!.

My thanks go to tom for his peace and Insanitor for lifting the lid.

I did not see multi personnality desease here. I do not read all the threads and topics, though.

But anyway, I have some clues for you. Do what you want with it.

Maybe it is because the group was a bloc with its traditions and its leaders that have made their place at the force of the fists, everybody knows each other well because of the LC events, before Dear Heather. So well tight, this group, that it can not be elastic enough to let new members on the board get in. Because they do not know them as well as the ancient ones, but they do not seem willing to provide the necessary time to know them, and/or to let them have their place in the chain. Conclusion : it is a vicious circle.

Furthermore, I'm sorry Tom but I did not see all the respect for everybody here that you are talking about "before", what you called peace was often only hypocrisy and wars in disguise of petit bourgeois good manners and wit for hit.

Then come Dear Heather and new posters - I saw that the ancient ones did not make place for them easily, trying to maintain their "supremacy" (hi!hi! - not to say sometimes, their air of superiority) on the board. I did not see great warms nor true welcomes if newcomers stay too longer on the boar or were taking too much place and/or were not submitted (did not know) the unwritten "laws" of the old posters, and if the ancient posters prefer to stay gather between themselves behind the scene because of this, it is up to them. Only to them.

Now if you regret the good old time, I can understand, and maybe you should suggest taht this forum should not be public and reserved to some members only.

As long as it is not the case, nobody could be considered as more or less a member of this board.

Now, also, I see a competition (that I find weard) that spoil all the fun. The only way to solved this problem is : do not play. As long as you are playing the game you lose, even if you are the topgod - sorry - dog of the pack. This is up to you Tom and to you only. Nobody is doing this to you.

Regarding the trust, it is something that is built between parts, it can not be acheive in one way. So here again it is up to you, and to everybody to build the links they want with others.

For the multi-trolls you are talking about, like Jurica said, the sole arm some people think they have againts their competitors is this. I'm against terrorism, I already said it. But as long as it is posts in a forum, I guess that not reading them is the best thing to do. "Do not feed the troll" is the best way to make the phenomenon die of lack of oxygen.

Cheers!

Tom~

You bring up something that has been the reason I have stayed away for long(ish) periods of time. And one that leaves me reluctant most times lately to read the Poetry Section in particular.

I think for the most part the mulitiple personality syndrome is focused in the Poetry forum and if you do not 'hang' there, then you would not see how damaging it has become.

The situation, without trying to sound too dramatic is toxic as far as I am concerned. The lack of trust undermines how you read everything, how you react to everything and worse of all it causes a mistrust that can leave your head spinning. Who is lying? Who is telling the truth? Are any of my "friends" lying to me. The latter is the worse. "We" have developed a familiarity with one another over the months or years of being Here. To suddenly question friends, people you trusted is devastating. I know this is cyber-world, but we are real people.

If the mulitipersonalities were created for humor, that is long gone. It is now a toxic atmosphere that has changed me. I now find new posters guilty before innocent. It has me making calculated responses; knowing that who I am speaking to is most likely just another false mask screwing with me and everyone else. It is about as far from being fun as it could get.

regards,
LaurieAK

How about this for multiple personalities?

On 8th April 2005, as Camella marries Charles, she does become, Princess of Wales. When Charles becomes King, Camella does become, Queen.

Now, that, is something I believe will cause more than a bit of a flutter on and off this board.

"A ruse by any other name, is still a ruse." (That's an Albert original on an old theme)

I thought Camilla could only become another title, something other than Queen.

Now, as to the topic of this thread. I've been staying away ~ however, only because of mourning the sudden, untimely deaths of three, dear, women friends, ranging in age from 38 to 48.

I would never have dreamed it possible that Leonard's music would not be all I would need in a dramatic, emotional situation. However, the compounded grief of the situation I've been dealing with ~ already preceded by the Tsunami, as well as the ongoing time spent with still another friend, who remains alive, but is struggling against cancer ~ catapulted me into a space, where only in-your-face life would suffice. Now, dear people who have become friends in the course of all that are enduring their own, additional losses ~ such a time of loss. I've wanted only eyes I could look into; voices I could hear; human touch I could feel; friendships I could develop to try to fill in the abyss, the gaping hole, caused by the loss; time I could spend with real human beings. In addition, the ancient roar of a lion, the timeless chuff of a tiger; looking up into the yawning lion's mouth, so close I could see the ridges on the roof; reaching through the fence with my fingers to touch their fur; releasing a suspended eyelash from the rest, with a tiny twig, as the lash threatened to fall into the lion, Jumanji's, eye ~ only these kinds of things were confirming that, yes, I am still alive. Perhaps, my strong connection to Leonard's music would have worked, or would have sufficed. The truth, however, is that I never gave it a chance. I was driven toward and felt compelled to be in the company of people with whom I could share the in-the-moment reality of life. I've wanted to be near people who understood my tears, could hug me in the midst of them, and could share their own grief.

I've begun to return to the Forum, as I knew I would. The whatever-phenomena that's occurring in the Poetry section goes beyond boring. It is, indeed, undermining. I'm not given to expressing that nature of thought on my own, or generally, even joining in. It's too close to the lament of "Why can't we all just get along?" That has always seemed to me an impotent questioning. Don't talk about. Just do it. Just keep showing up and making your own, positive contribution toward that end. However, since it has been addressed here in such detail, I'll make my own comment of the sooner, the better, to its ending.

Love,
Elizabeth [always used the moniker "lizzytysh" ~ never anything else]

Trying to catch up here is dreadfully overwhelming, but I won't give up. I will accomplish that. Some would say that all I really need to do is join back in where I am now; but I know too well from experience, the range of precious sharing and contributions that occur here, and so I will read back to the day I left, until I've covered every thread, in every section.

I have only been posting here for a few months and have only everhad positive experiences in doing so.

I have read all the above posts. I don't post much in poetry, in fact I think today was probably the first time I did. I do like reading poetry. Lots of different poetry. I don't always understand it, I find it hard to discuss it, but I do like to read it.

I have posted on forums in the past where the atmosphere has become nasty. So nasty on one board that we closed it in the end.

I haven't seen any of that here.

Maybe because I am new.

I like it here, I have been made to feel welcome, I will continue to post and will work my way into other parts of the board where I haven't posted yet.

Despite my respite into living out loud, I will never be driven from this fine arena, of that you can be sure. That said, it doesn't take away from the validity of the issues expressed in this, particular thread.

Love,
Elizabeth

Byron, I thought she wasn't entitled to be....ah entitled?

Well, not at the PoW. I heard she was gonna be the Duches of Cornwall or the Princess Consort. Of course this is much more important news than any other events in the world,

here is the offical engagment pic

http://www.jillsjokeline.com/chasncamillariding.shtml