leonardcohenforum.com

Leonard is number 16.
Joni Mitchell is number 9.
Dylan number 1.
Discuss amongs yourselves, class.

Well I personally believe they have number one correct but Joni Mitchel above Leonard, I don't think so. LC in top 4 or 5 for sure

I haven't been on the forum for a long time so if this topic has been discussed then I apologies but I just happen to see a list of the rolling stone list of songwriters and to my disbelief Leonard came in at an unbelievable sixteen . Here are a list of those who rolling stone deem to be better ;
1 Bob Dylan
2 Paul Mcartney
3 John Lennon
4 chuck Berry
5 smokey Robinson
6 M Jagger/K Richards
7 Carol King/ Gerry golfing
8 Paul Simon
9 Joni Mitchell
10 Stevie Wonder
11 Bob Marley
12 Brian Wilson
13 Hank Williams
14 Bruce Springstein
15 Eddie and Brian Holland
I don't know what anybody else thinks but personally I think the rolling stone have seriously lost the plot

Extra Credit Class: The Top 20: compare and contrast
1: Dylan
2. McCartney
3. Lennon
4. Chuck Berry
5. Smokey Robinson
6. Jagger/Richards
7. Carole King, King/Goffin
8. Paul Simon
9. Joni Mitchell
10. Stevie Wonder
11. Bob Marley
12. Brian Wilson
13. Hank Willliams
14. Springsteen
15. Eddie Holland, Lamont Dozier and Brian Holland (Motown's golden age)
16. Leonard
17. Neil Young
18. Prince
19. Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry (Brill Building '62 - '65)
20. Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller (LA 50's writing machine: Jailhouse Rock, Yakety Yak, Kansas City, On Broadway, Ruby Baby, Riot in Cell Block #9

The whole list is interesting and fun...and of course just one subjective list. List and blurb on each is available at
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists ... ongwriters

My picks for down-listers who need a recount:
37 Garcia/Hunter
43 Johnny Cash
48 Elton John/Taupin
Taylor Swift: at 97, but why so high? Missing a digit or 2 on this one.

Philip, you've written what we all feel. There are so many misplaced songwriters that it is hard to know where to start. But Leonard at 16-no way. Also note that Tom Russell didn't even make the top 100. Tom Waits is way, way, too low. As they say, these rankings are subjective and personal likes, dislikes etc. weigh too heavy.

Roger Waters didn't make the Rolling Stone magazine list of Greatest Songwriters? But Taylor Swift did... That is laughable.

I also noted that Abba just scraped in at 100 which is a little perplexing

I also noted that Abba just scraped in at 100 which is a little perplexing

Benny & Bjorn are right up there with the very best. they are like the Rodgers & Hammerstein of the 70s.

well, what does 'greatest' mean? the 'biggest'? the most popular is not necessarily the most skilled, and very often has little to do with quality. i suspect lists such as this one are purposely designed to provoke indignation and controversy. journalists learned long ago that all publicity is good publicity. so don't worry, most people will know that leonard cohen is a far more talented songwriter than many of those placed above him on this list.

Sorry, but RS is taking a short term and linguistically insular approach here. None of the great pre-WW2 songcrafters feature, as far I could see (the list got rather tedious after about 1 - 40). Where is Gershwin, Berlin, Porter? What are Brecht/Weill? (Read Dylan in "Chronicles 1" on 'Pirate Jenny', why don't you, RS?!). And then all non-English-language singers appear to be excluded! What nonsense is this? RS needs to find room in the top 5 for Jacques Brel, for a start, and Milton Nascimento in the top 20. Seriously.

As for Leonard. He is not great musically, we all know that. Most of the time, his music simply serves his towering poetry and vocal delivery. His recordings are great in a lyrical, poetical and transcendent-voice-of-intimacy-and-truth kind of way. I'd place him on another list entirely, that spoke not to 'greatness' in (post-1940s Anglophone) songwriting, but to greatness in Recorded Poetic Lyricism. And there, Leonard's is a work supreme.

And then, of course, there's the book, Beautiful Losers. They haven't invented a category for it, yet ...

As usual as every "Rolling Stone's List of Greatest... (whaterever)"

rmorgan wrote:As for Leonard. He is not great musically, we all know that.

i didn't know it

Geoffrey wrote:

rmorgan wrote:As for Leonard. He is not great musically, we all know that.

i didn't know it

.. neither did I.

Geoffrey wrote:

rmorgan wrote:As for Leonard. He is not great musically, we all know that.

i didn't know it

I was going to post those very same words (the ones that Geoffrey posted - thank you), then thought maybe I'll just let that one go, but now I must say: I didn't know it either! (And I suspect there might be a few others who are quite ignorant of that "fact".)

Well, I won't argue, for I'm sure we all love Leonard's work immeasurably! (But if even I can play most of his first four albums on the guitar ...well, NeverMind!).

I would however be interested in your thoughts on my paragraph as a whole, wherein I suggest a different, more transcendent form of Greatness, far beyond any category dreamed up by Rolling Stone ..

Peace to all