leonardcohenforum.com

Interpersonal Stuff

Please believe me
I am not the man you see
With all his flaws
Look beyond
The frozen rainbow
In your solid sky
Beyond your ire
Beyond the little wooden figure
For your fire

You may see me with your mind
One day
When clouds no longer blind
Your wisdom eye
When you can look behind
Our shimmering masks
When you eventually
Ask yourself
"And who am I?"

That day,
In your place
You will find
Only empty space
Then you will know
With certainty
That the me that you see
Is also illusory
And then there will be peace
Between you and me

Sean Hunt Somewhere in Scotland April 2015

Your poem fits well with your last quote by Leonard.

It's comin' from the feel that this ain't exactly real, or it's real, but it ain't exactly there!

In Democracy I feel the line as, being simultaneously connected and disconnected to humanity through the t.v. screen - now I can see it in a slightly different way as well, a second more generalized sense of nothing being quite real.

hope all is well for you,

cate

Hi Cate

Always nice to hear from you. I am planning a trip to Toronto this year, and maybe we will be able to meet for coffee?

There is a very profound teaching in Buddhism regarding the nature of reality. Buddha never said that things don't exist. He said that it would be very silly (to everyone) to say this. He only questioned how things exist or the way in which things exist. Things exist as mere appearance to mind; this cannot be denied. Dreams exist as appearances to mind, however they have no other basis in reality and Buddha said that understanding dreams helps us to understand that our appearing daytime reality exists in the same way, as mere appearance to mind.

Leonard's lyric....It's comin' from the feel that this ain't exactly real, or it's real, but it ain't exactly there! ......... relates to this truth about the nature of reality, in my opinion. I think your 'generalized sense of nothing being quite real' is probably right
sean

I am planning a trip to Toronto this year, and maybe we will be able to meet for coffee?

absolutely, I'd like that.
just let me know when you're coming and we'll make some plans for some fancy coffee's (or tea's).

Good stuff, Sean.

An abbot (was it Hakuin?) once had allowed a group of travelling monks to camp in the garden of his temple. While preparing their fire, they discussed subjectivity and objectivity, and he witnessed one of them asking whether a big stone that happened to lie there existed outside the mind or only inside. Another monk answered that it only existed inside his mind.
The abbot now remarked that that traveller's mind must be pretty heavy, with such a stone in it. —

Your poem is pleasant to read, yet concise.
And I really like that innocent-sounding "little wooden figure / For your fire".
A convincing invitation, methinks, to explore the less obvious layers.

("So you can stick your little pins in that voodoo doll
I'm very sorry, baby, doesn't look like me at all")

Brand-new morning

Cold night in the middle of winter.
High up in a mountain temple
a lone monk is frozen to his seat.

He sparingly nurses the fire,
makes do with what wood is handy —
the altar keeps shivering all the same.

Frost sharpens its fangs; dawn is paling
the last log's last flame, a flicker.
The small buddha has to do for fuel.

The guardian monk, coming for service,
is shocked, gets angry, starts shouting.
"Oh, sorry; was Buddha in that form?"

"Of course not, you dummy! A statue,
that's merely some wood, some carving."
"Then may I burn those, the big ones, too?"

that innocent-sounding "little wooden figure / For your fire".
A convincing invitation, methinks, to explore the less obvious layers.

Yes Jean

The line is very similar to Leonard's as you pointed out
BUT
The experience of being immolated by a lover is not copyrighted by Leonard
It is in the 'public domain'
So I don't feel badly about plagiarizing the observation

Sean

Oh, oh, looks as though that one misfired.

My first idea was the zen story I added, where a little wooden figure is indeed used for the fire. That is not "plagiarizing" Leonard Cohen at all. And it is not similar to "Tower of Song" either.
A voodoo doll, to my very best knowledge, does not serve any heating purposes (positive, however remotely), but only (negatively) to harm somebody.

And I'm serious about the less obvious layers. That's why I tried to suggest associations.
Appearances, self-interest, self-perception, "I don't trust my inner feelings", "being", social and cultural roots, "soul", nothing, something — and their interdependence in "interpersonal stuff".

Sean, I'm very sorry if I didn't express myself properly.

The last lady in my life was Spanish,
Very Spanish,
Spanish to the power of 10
She was very fiery
I used to watch her hallucinate
Little wooden figurines of me
(That I didn't think looked at all like me)
(The me that I see)
It was a 'funny' curiosity
Like a high-risk
Camp fire
On a windy summer night
Until the pain came
From the flames

I now live in the 'Lakes District'
In England
Alone
I am now much more moist

Sean

The last lady in my life was Spanish,
Very Spanish,
Spanish to the power of 10
She was very fiery
I used to watch her hallucinate
Little wooden figurines of me
(That I didn't think looked at all like me)
(The me that I see)
It was a 'funny' curiosity
Like a high-risk
Camp fire
On a windy summer night
Until the pain came
From the flames

I now live in the 'Lakes District'
In England
Alone
I am now much more moist

Sean