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I'm quite confused about the pronunciation of the word 'intimate' in the song 'Nevermind'.

The High Indifference 
Some call Fate 
But we had Names 
More intimate

He pronounces it in a way that rhymes with 'fate'. I always thought this pronunciation was correct only for the verb 'to intimate'. For the adjective and for the noun the pronunciation should rhyme with 'met'. And all the sources I could find agree with this.

So, native speakers, what's up? Just poetic license? Or a seldom used but nevertheless correct pronunciation variation? A Canadian peculiarity? Or am I simply ill-informed?

I agree with your analysis Hartmut and I don't think you are missing anything. But then I could be wrong. My pronunciation is the common variety with short northern syllables - bath, not baaath, garage, not garaaage etc. Other Brits will know what I mean

Wendy

Thanks, Wendy.

I agree, too, Hartmut. I've not had a chance to properly listen to the album and won't be able to until after the 23rd. From what you've said, however, I'd put it down to poetic license.

inti-mate

(the mate / to mate)

Or is it pronounced in french?

Thank you for your suggestions, Lizzy, Jean, and Maj.

There is a light difference here in th e sounds:

http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.c ... intimate_1

Maybe it is like for the colours. (Or the colors.) When you put a same colour beside different ones, this changes the perception of the color. I like bizarre explanations.

Good question, Hartmut. It's a very interesting subject & here are my thoughts thus far:

The placement of the word, "intimate", in the context of the song, would make it an adjective, which would be pronounced as you have indicated. But Leonard pronounces it as though it's a verb. I wonder if perhaps the intention is for the word to function as an adjective & verb simulataneously (which I would see as a form of poetic license).

We all know what the word means as an adjective, & that meaning would suggest the deeply personal significance of the "Names" referred to in the song. The verb form of "intimate" can mean to hint or imply, & it can also mean to make known or to proclaim - & that is the really interesting part, because that meaning would suggest that the Names were active, living entities which had the power to make known, or proclaim, the deepest & truest nature of that which was named, be it an object, person, phenomenon, etc. The Jewish tradition teaches that Hebrew names do have this kind of power. The Hebrew names for objects & people are considered conduits of divine energy. The essence of a person's nature & a person's destiny are intertwined with his/her Hebrew name.

The following verse seems to support this interpretation: "Names so deep and/ Names so true/ they're blood to me. . ."

holydove wrote:because that meaning would suggest that the Names were active, living entities which had the power to make known, or proclaim, the deepest & truest nature of that which was named, be it an object, person, phenomenon, etc.

Very interesting idea, Mrs. Dove!

holydove wrote:I wonder if perhaps the intention is for the word to function as an adjective & verb simulataneously (which I would see as a form of poetic license).

I had also thought about the possibility that 'intimate' might have the function of a verb in this sentence. But, well, grammatically it doesn't work.

But, much as you said, maybe you could look at it like this: 'intimate' has the grammatical function of an adjective here, but the pronunciation of the word also suggests the meaning of the verb. Which is quite neat. You have to be someone like Leonard Cohen or Bob Dylan, however, to pull off something like this.

I have to say, though, that all of this confusion could have been avoided easily by simply omitting one letter - the letter 'e' of the word 'fate'. It would go like this then:

The High Indifference
Some call fat
But we had Names
More intimate

I really wish Mr. Cohen would consult me on things like these ...

Hartmut, I couldn't agree more. Mr. Cohen really should!

But the world is a bad place. Full of popular problems like this...



Thank you very much, holydove. My first impression is that your idea might turn out to be quite helpful. (Unless I'm off-track, that is. English is not my mother tongue.)

"But we had Names / more intimate."

And if we considered this to be intimate as a verb in "Saxon" syntax?

[Edit: Like in "When hatred with his package comes..."?]

(The "Anglo" syntax being: But we had Names / intimate more.)

[Edit: Like in When hatred comes with his package]

Would that work?

Jean Fournell wrote:Would that work?

I don't really think so, Jean.

But let's see what the others say.

Hartmut wrote:
But, well, grammatically it doesn't work...

But, much as you said, maybe you could look at it like this: 'intimate' has the grammatical function of an adjective here, but the pronunciation of the word also suggests the meaning of the verb. Which is quite neat. You have to be someone like Leonard Cohen or Bob Dylan, however, to pull off something like this.

I have to say, though, that all of this confusion could have been avoided easily by simply omitting one letter - the letter 'e' of the word 'fate'. It would go like this then:

The High Indifference
Some call fat
But we had Names
More intimate

I really wish Mr. Cohen would consult me on things like these ...

It doesn't have to work grammatically. . .not exactly, anyway. . .(what a silly idea! )

Yes I agree, it is very neat, & one would have to be a Leonard Cohen to pull it off, & fortunately, it IS Leonard Cohen who has pulled it off. . .And yes, I meant that maybe the word is meant to function as both adj. & verb, & thereby have a dual meaning.

"fat" wouldn't work, because that wouldn't rhyme with the adjective form of "intimate" either. It would have to be "fit". And I thought Leonard Cohen WAS consulting with you. . .

Jean Fournell wrote:
"But we had Names / more intimate."

And if we considered this to be intimate as a verb in "Saxon" syntax?

[Edit: Like in "When hatred with his package comes..."?]

(The "Anglo" syntax being: But we had Names / intimate more.)

[Edit: Like in When hatred comes with his package]

Would that work?

Thank you for your response, Jean. I'm not 100% sure what you are saying, but I think that if "intimate" is still pronounced as the verb, in what you're suggesting, we would still have the same issue. Nice try, though!

Editing: Jean, I think I just realized what you were saying, & it makes some sense, but I think, to actually work, then it would have to be: "but we had Names/ WHICH more intimate (pronounced as verb)" - (but now maybe I'm getting too concerned with grammar, after I just said it doesn't have to work grammatically!). But the problem with that suggestion is that it would take away the dual meaning, & I still think it's possible, & also like the idea, that it's meant to have both meanings (sorry - I'm kind of stubborn that way )

i'm sure it's purely and simply about stretching the language and pronunciation to keep things rhyming!
The master of this was Mr Dylan

Better jump down a manhole
Light yourself a candle
Don't wear sandals
Try to avoid the scandals
Don't wanna be a bum
You better chew gum
The pump don't work
'Cause the vandals took the handles

to cite but one

'vague traces of skipping reels of rhyme'