leonardcohenforum.com

"I was not writing particularly incisively, but I had started along the right road-a narrow and empty side road. I had a sense of being freer, of growing stronger, and my belief in myself had nothing to do with success or failure but only with writing well. Of course, I wanted to be recognized-I wanted to be a hero-but that desire was not incompatible with the various fanciful roles that I had chosen for myself, growing up: the traveler, the hunter, the explorer, the lion tamer, the forest ranger, the scientist, the surgeon, which were all brilliantly solitary and somewhat heroic. I can honestly say-and it was a great help to me-that I had no driving ambition to be wealthy."--Paul Theroux, "Memory and Desire"

Those of us, judges, intermediary thingies, and participants share in the final thoughts of this treatise-there were no cash prizes and no cash awards for any level of participation.

I am one of the few people participating who actually have met both C2 and Teratogen. I address this to them:

Dear friends,

I come now from the bedside vigil of a loved one. There were many of us there who's lives were intertwined with hers. Michael, you may recall a thread back on the old newsgroup where there was a big to do about something or other and I posted a story about my Uncle and the stink bomb that he set off when he wasn't invited to a party that my Mother and my dear Aunt hosted when they were young. Our friend, Geoffrey, teased me unmercifully about my dear, "Auntie" as he called her-and it was truly a gentle teasing as friends can get away with when they know that their heroic nature cannot be undone.

I remember also a group of friends gathered outside of International House and the genuine warmth that overshadowed the differences in ages, backgrounds, and nationalities.

I remember a dinner on the sunstruck island of my dreams seated across from a brilliant writer and a warm person with his even warmer companion and something that I said irritated him and it took a stern look from that even warmer companion to quell that beginning of pique.

I am not on this earth to be judge, jury, or intermediary-we are all called to be peace-makers.

Teratogan-

I'm not sure where your first tiff with Michael occurred. In thinking about it, I do recall some ill will previously, but I had forgotten about it. I wouldn't have encouraged Michael to critique your poems had I remembered this.

This does not preclude the fact that Michael's comments are for the most part insightful and you should read them carefully and thank him (as our friends Laurie and John K. suggested). You do have great potential and nothing that Michael said suggested that you don't. He was very specific and by and large very accurate. I singled you out for this because the ratio of your experience and age tagged you for the possibility of a long and productive writing life. Post graduate life can be a bitch-but very rewarding if you continue to respect the tensions of the life of the mind.

C2-

I liked your "My Way/Joe Way" poem-perhaps you can turn that into a musical so that my children will have some lasting legacy rather than the tawdry remnants that I leave here and elsewhere.

Thank you for taking the time to closely read these poems-you are probably better equipped to make insightful, sound comments than this reluctant judge-but I would suggest that you refrain from deciding that English is, perhaps, not their (the participants) first language until, at least, after the first round. I suspect that your very warm companion would join me in this request. (note: first emotithingy used in a very long time!)

Now, it's time for bed and a return to the bedside vigil tomorrow. Please keep a very dear lady who loves dogs and beer (she said this was enough of an obit) in your very kind thoughts.

Joe

"it was love at first sight", the opening line of my favourite book, Catch 22. I hope you don't get easily embarrassed by flattery but I both instantly liked and respected you from our first ever meeting.

I thank you for gently tugging at my ego when I am straying too far (and maybe not for the first time on this forum). As I said elsewhere, I have no problem with T at all. I am not clear from your post if I have actually met him or you two have spoken outside of one of the Events.

What the hell is this "stern look" occasion? And what outrageous, disgraceful, shameful comment did you make that I didn't like???? I just re-read your words, the look from that "even warmer companion" was towards me not you, was it? ha ha ha!! she wouldn't dare!


All the very best wishes for your dear friend,

regards from both of us,

Michael and Critic2

were you in new york, c2? that's where i met joe, very briefly. but i did get to view him getting many rounds of applause from all of us in new york for helping put together the cohen event.

joe: there may be only a few people on here that can get me to cool off, shut up, calm down, walk away, or be nice, and you may be one of them, only because i have a great deal of respect for you. i just cannot seem to find that in c2. not from what i've read from and about him on this forum. it's like when you read a novel, you tend to identify with certain characters, and build up your emotion in particular ways towards the characters; you can tell what they are like, just by reading about what those characters do and say, what other characters say about them, and how other characters act around them. so, this is my interpretation (and i'm not the only one): what i read from c2's comments, i don't interpret anything insightful. he seems to utilize the "tough love" theory, which is too militant and unappealing to me. if i had a child that was doing wrong, i would never resort to spanking him/her. that's what i feel c2 is doing to myself as well as others. ok, so i didn't write the best poem in the world, he shouldn't have to beat us up over it. this whole message board is a world of text. all you have to do is read what the characters say and what others say about him or her. it's not hard to notice the man's ego on this board either. if what i say about him having several different handles is true, then that only helps to prove that his ego is almost uncontrollable. it's schizophrenic. if i wrote something serious and very personal and took a lot of time and effort into it, and if i chose to display it, i would most certainly be paying attention to criticisms, even if they were as harsh as c2's. this was nothing. the one i spent the most time on was poem #11, "in my winter rest," and i thank you for recognizing it. i didn't even try too hard on it. it only took me the most time because half of it was written quite some time ago, and i only added some more to it so i could submit it to the contest. even if c2 IS being sincere about his criticisms, some of the stuff he says to people when he is not criticizing a poem is pretty harsh, too. i can always go back and find things he's said... anyone can do that. but here i feel like the odd man out because you two seem to know each other so well, as well as this woman who is very ill. i'm not in that little circle, and it may only make me a bit more apprehensive towards this whole thing.

if this thing is to be settled, it must be known that i am not the only one that c2 is against or that is against c2. this cannot end with just the two of us. i don't care if i talk to this man on the telephone, if he tells me his life story and i tell him mine, if we choose to meet and split a pitcher of beer and talk it over, or even if we duke it out in a battle royale, it won't be easy.

thanks for your comments, T. one thing I have never done is count the number for or against me. I notice how you and others always need to mention that you "are not the only one" who feels this way etc. I don't have that insecurity issue. my poet crits are genuine. I agree I wouldn't have said them to a friend. you are not a friend because I really dislike the way you have been sniding with a troll on this forum. But I have a lot of lovely mates here that I do enjoy chatting to and I would be delighted to end our (rather minor) spat. A beer is not the way however as I am teetotal and a few thousand miles away!

yes, I was in NY. I opened the whole Event on stage at the Knitting Factory. I explained the real meaning of Chelsea Hotel as a tribute to Scott Joplin.

oh shit, that was you? ...i really liked that opener. it was funny. fuckin' weird. you seemed so much nicer there. i don't know if you even know who i am, but if you were at the event where all the people got up to perform leonard's songs, my best friend and i were yelling for that guy zach, because he did "closing time" and "don't go home with your hard-on." that was probably where more people recognized us because we were being ecstatically outrageous.

but look, man, i don't care who you think i associate with, what's THEIR status as a "troll" got to do with how you think of ME? i don't think it's a matter of insecurity that i need to mention how i am not the only one who feels you mistreat (almost punish) them. it's because i seem to be singled out moreso than anyone else, and i do not speak or act for everyone else who may just happen to feel the same way i do. but i don't count them either. knowing there is more than one is enough.

so, alright man... how do you want to do this? you don't like me associating with paints, whoever the hell that is, and i don't like the way you sound like a jerk-off all the time, not just to me, but to others. so what about it? i'm sorry you don't drink... i would have suggested that if you're going to berlin next year--which i assume you are--we could have done it then, and i'll sign a contract on it. in fact, i'd buy you a round myself. so, what do you suggest?

Hi T, I don't think I remember the shouts for Zach. where else in the Event might I remmeber you from? I am sure you ddin't come to the poetry jam as there were so few of us. were you there for the tribute song to Leonard for his 70th?

put that drink on ice, I'm afraid. Henning has asked me to open the Berlin Event but personal stuff may keep me from attending.

I'll buy you a virtual round any time you want, though (insert evil emotithingy).

Teratogen wrote:oh shit, that was you? ...i really liked that opener. it was funny. fuckin' weird. you seemed so much nicer there. i don't know if you even know who i am, but if you were at the event where all the people got up to perform leonard's songs, my best friend and i were yelling for that guy zach,

wait a minute, were you with Sean?

Henning has asked me to open the Berlin Event but personal stuff may keep me from attending.

Don't believe a word of it T, he said the same thing before Hydra, and was certain he would not be in NY. Then again, maybe his appearance at both was an illusion.

p.

partisan wrote:

Henning has asked me to open the Berlin Event but personal stuff may keep me from attending.

Don't believe a word of it T, he said the same thing before Hydra, and was certain he would not be in NY. Then again, maybe his appearance at both was an illusion.

p.

hello, budding lawyer- you can't sue on a doubt. I am not contracting *not* to go. I just do have some interesting obstacles to overcome.

yes, sean is my best friend. did you meet him? at the knitting factory we stayed upstairs and became quick friends with richard mcgraw. we kept shouting for him to sing "please don't pass me by." our pictures are up on the website... i wore all the marilyn manson t-shirts... ring any bell? we stayed at columbia... i vaguely remember what you look like. but i do remember you opening up the event at the knitting factory.