leonardcohenforum.com

You were the generator, i was the destroyer
i was infidelity, you were the crummy little lawyer
you chose Huckleberry Finn, i went for Tom Sawyer
you went for the hotel bed, i went for the bar and the foyer
and it's opposites that do attract
and it's opposites that do attack
Love quickly sours to hate and anger
Loving words quickly turn to slander
and in the battle of the sexes
it's as quick as merlin spells or witches hexes
one dominates and one is the loser
one hits and the other is the bruised chooser
one manipulates and the other is the user
both however secretly love, the power of the abuser
Georges

Copyright: George Wright 2004

Georges! The styling of this is heavily Leonard in the beginning, and I liked it [though not necessarily for that reason]. From the "One dominates and one is the loser" on, is where it falls apart for me. That 'conclusive'-type statement doesn't sit well. When it comes to some of the dichotomies you set up, your polarities aren't always accurate. "One hits and the other is the bruiser" ~ the one doing the hitting [if that even be the case] would also be the one doing the bruising. It sounds like you maybe meant "bruised." "One manipulates and the other is the user" ~ manipulation is a technique for using others, i.e. being a "user." It sounds like you maybe meant "used."

However, your power-/control-based, overall conclusion is the most concerning, as it heavily suggests a dysfunctional, co-dependency type relationship ~ 'co-dependency' being a specific term, which does not suggest having to/being able to rely on each other [a healthy thing]. I'm not sure where you really mean to be coming from, with this poem, but dang, it sure doesn't bode well for how you may perceive 'normalcy' for relationships.

~ Elizabeth

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes, Liz.
I was not inferring my relationships in the poem, it was poetic licence.
Georges

Hey George- That seemed to be a bit of a departure from the style of your recent posts. I enjoyed very much.

Take your partners for the Dance
One will lead and one will prance
One won't stop and stand and stare
One will flounce and swish their hair
One will fall and one will toil
Both will end beneath the soil
That's life......

Aha! "Prance" ~ a definite Georges word . Like your ditty on the dance and life .

Ciao George!

It's another good poem, my friend.

Pay no attention to Lizzytysh. I see that she now is good friend with JF, even phone calling. So you must expect that she will find fault with your poetry. And point out mistakes. She is a "bruiser" now. Like her hero BTRD.

Vesuvius

Ves ~

Georges and I go too far back for you to mislead him at this point. Sorry, Charlie.....I mean, Ves . My stance on this poem is not unfamiliar territory.

~ Lizzy

Yes folks, a last tango poem and steeped into history. Ciao, ves. Nice to hear from you. i thought you had gone away, nice to see you, nice.
Liz, you take things very seriously. Chill out. We do go a long way, not nice to see you back up obscene posts, from whatever quarters.
Byron, always a gentleman. I feel that i have known you for years. And Epurcelly, a poet in his own right.........
Best Wishes and thanks.......Georges

Georges ~

The issue is far more complex than simply backing up an obscene post. There is a history of which you are unaware. I backed up a friend, via her response to being very inappropriately and unnecessarily attacked for no reason at all. Her post was not an out-of-the-gate, unprovocated one. Its language and references exceeded all boundaries that I would ever consider for myself. It bears no resemblance to how I express myself.

However, for someone to come here and post for their first time, in good faith and with good will ~ and with incredible substance ~ and have someone try to hack them off at the knees for a legitimate reference that followed the end of the posting itself, is simply, beyond-belief egregious, and raises all kinds of red flags ~ particularly when the party repeatedly returns to insult even further and more deeply, even bringing Leonard's mental capacity and judgement into question.

Then, to provide a link in the effort to 'prove wrong' a solid statement made by someone, who couldn't possibly be any more familiar with and aware of how monies are accrued and dispensed, in a particular arena, with which they have had intimate familiarity for a quarter of a century......well, to all of these issues, I will not try to intercede/intervene/interrupt with that person's handling it in her own way.

I am inclined to note that the essence of my and Bryon's related postings on it are essentially the same. To me, your comment is, "We do go a long way, not nice to see you back up obscene posts." To Byron, your comment is, "Byron, always a gentleman. I feel that i have known you for years." Hmmm . Do you see the discrepancies in your responses?

Abusive relationships, Georges, and poetry that with its "licence" suggests that they are normal and somehow okay, on the premise that both involved "love" their dynamics, is not really something I have any intention of "Chill"ing "out" about. Your poem's title is "Battle of the Sexes" ~ some of your terminology relates directly to violence between them. I do take things seriously [though certainly not all things]. I take it very seriously. If you think I take things too seriously, it doesn't necessarily follow that I need to "Chill out," however It may even be you don't take things seriously enough A world of possibilities there. You also know that I have no use for the dismissive dynamics of your 'conclusion' and 'command,' and have never responded affirmatively to "Chill out" commands, period. I'll chill when I'm good and ready to chill. Or not ~ if I'm not.

Who knows, Georges? You could even be one of the males walking the earth who could use a little educating on the exploitation and wielding of power and control [mental, psychological, physical, financial, economic, social, etc.] within male-female relationships, and the destructive, unhealthy, sometimes deadly, imbalance that it creates. When I see evidence that this could be a case, where calling attention to it may bring a bit of awareness that it's not okay [but ignoring it somehow serves to sanction it], I tend to stick my big feet in, and will continue to do so.

~ Elizabeth

Ciao Lizzytysh!

You are incorrect. BTRD's post on ROck and Roll was not her first post on the forum. She has posted before several times. And she is not known for posting with "Good will" and "good intentions" on the NewsGroup. No Sir!

I thought she wanted me to buy her book too. Is that not why the signature says "Here is where you may buy my book?"

And George in his poem did not say that he is not normal. He did not write "THis is my life". Abusing women. You should not slander George by saying that he likes to abuse women. I do not believe that. You are sounding more and more like BTRD. The last line of Georges poem fits you like Leonard's glove... you "secretly love the power of the abuser" (BTRD).

Vesuvius

Vesuvius ~

Where have you been all this time with your 'profound insights'....that you now so easily flypaper tack onto BTRD [now that you, of course, have ~ through no insight of your own ~ become aware of our friendship ]. With your 'vast arsenal' of 'knowledge' of how she's 'known'/'not known,' where were your insights then? Why have I never heard, "You remind me so much of.....," "You sound so much like....."? In one fell swoop of a day, I am "sounding more like..."? C'mon, Ves, be serious. Well, okay, if not serious, at least logical. Oh, heck, if not "be".....at least try . Transparency does not serve you well.

Not saying that Georges is an abuser....however, not known many of them thar creatures who admitted to such, either. In fact, they would outwardly deny it, if asked ~ yet, conversationally, and throughout their vocabulary, lie many clues. Awareness helps on both sides of the glass. I try to keep the Windex handy. At best, a general 'code of acceptance' is as insidious as the behaviour itself. I didn't slander George by saying he does anything; however, I am directing my comments at what he has written, and the reenforcing impact of such writing.

You're right, and I had momentarily forgotten that BTRD did, in fact, post here twice before ~ both times directly in relationship to some people's responses to Leonard's group thank-you for the birthday greetings sent him. These postings constituted her shock regarding them, if not defense of Leonard's own. However, this was her first attempt to visit here and actively engage in substantive ~ positive ~ fashion, with any number of people, who knew nothing of the ng and historically her postings there. However, what good will and intentions of you to splat your own negativity about her, relative to the ng.......which has to do with...WHAT?....here ~ and for....WHAT?....intended impact?

~ Lizzytysh

Ciao Lizzytysh,

You slander George again. Read this.

lizzytysh wrote:Vesuvius ~

Not saying that Georges is an abuser....however, not known many of them thar creatures who admitted to such, either. In fact, they would outwardly deny it, if asked ~ yet, conversationally, and throughout their vocabulary, lie many clues. ~ Lizzytysh

This is a terrible thing to say of George. You can not have your cake and eat it too. You cannot say that you are not saying that Georges is an abuser and then say that abusers won't admit it when asked, either. And that they outwardly deny it. (George has denied it). You are indirectly accusing George of abusing women. You hint that you know this because of the "Clues" in his vocabulary and conversation on this forum.

You are guilty of Slander. Just as Btrd is guilty of slander. Remember one of your American sayings: "Birds of a Feather flock together". You should apolgize to George.


Vesuvius

Ciao, Ves ~

No apologies forthcoming. Just the facts, ma'am, nothing but the facts. Merely stating truths. They can fall together, or they can fall apart. No slander present. Awareness of language and terminology which support long-standing attitudes bring light to darkness.

All apples are fruit. All fruit is not apples. Can go either way. Only the person in their own life really knows how it goes. However, society receives its clues from all round. Behaviours are reenforced as a result. Awareness isn't the culprit. Lack of it is.

~ Lizzytysh

Ciao Lizzytysh,

I cannot believe what I am reading. Once again you are slandering George. You now claim that these are "facts". Nothing but "facts". Are you trying to ruin him? With your "clues"? Are you Sherlock Holmes? You not only need to apolgize To George you should thank him for not bringing a suit of law against you. You are so smug in your self-righteousness.

Vesuvius