leonardcohenforum.com

Raining

Throwing the acid
Spilling the tears
Anger of silence
Festered for years
Bled of all reason
Starved of all care
Drained through the gutters
Flushed through the air

Knocked back by glances
Knotted in pain
Never a let up
Hardly a-gain
Strewn across pages
My pen in a fist
Period or full stop
You’re getting the gist

Walls made from commas
Never reaching an end
Hostage to swearing
To family and friends
Hating and loathing
The creature I am
Impaled on my words
Before G-d and man

The Flood of the Ages
Took Sins to the seas
They swallow me whole
As I sing on my knees
Why do I cry Lord
What have I done
I’m drowning in rain
From the tears I’ve become.

This is strong and powerful, Byron....I like it very much!!!

~ Elizabeth

Byron...
Beautiful, poignant, and profoundly moving....
Exceptional content; impressive execution.

Exactly, Makera ~

Well said.....so, while you're ditto'ing Byron re: Georges, I'm ditto'ing you re: Byron. Fair, is it not ?

~ Lizzy

This is a straight post without any hidden agenda, I promise. This seems like a very friendly community and the "members" are supportive of each other. I am a fan of poetry and indeed any good writing.

My thoughts are about the quality of the poetry and the "critiques" they receive. If the only point is the satisfaction for the writer in completing his verse, and the pleasure of the others in reading the work of their friends- then I consider that beyond any criticism and I have no further point to make. That is fine social interaction.


But as you can't reply instantly as I write, allow me to wonder a little further. If, instead, the writer has hopes of developing her/his poetry and receiving serious critiques then the exchanges are misleading. I have no wish to sound mean and get the spirit of this place wrong. But it might help for anyone writing to be appraised objectiviely.

My belief is that the poem posted here would be absolutely slaughtered if posted to a newsgroup like AAPC. Leaving aside purposely unkind posters there, other expereinced poets would "expose" it for every literary sin going!

There it is. I hope this information is of interest and taken in the kind spirit in which it is written.


Helen

Thank you to Elizabeth, Gennelle and Helen.
I agree with every word that Helen has written (except expereinced ) I am like George Wright in many ways. I find a tremendous release through my writing. It has a catharsis at times, which allows me to explore the emotional depths of life's experiences. It allows me to play with words. It allows me communicate with friends. It makes me look at the world from differing viewpoints. Unlike lc who had to write three pages a day because he was a 'writer,' I have no such aspirations and expectations. If I can allow readers to pause and look at themselves and compare their life experiences with the 'writer' of my postings, then I am content. I don't ask them to share my 'words' like the sharing of a cup of coffee in a pleasant drawing room, but to tilt their heads to the side a little and accept what appears on their computer screen, as an open hand extended in friendship. That is all. No more. No less.
Helen, I am well aware of my own limitations. However, I sincerely appreciate your honest appraisal of my 'words' in a much wider context. Thank you. Does the AAPC have a website? I ask because I enjoy reading the work of others. Some writers become famous, but that does not mean that others are lesser writers.

Wonder/Helen~
I take it you are an "experienced poet" then, to make such an observation? If so, it would be more honourable to back up such a statement with an example of the "literary sins" of which you speak, would it not? To be provocative without explication seems disingenuous to me. I can only conclude, also, that you have read very little of the poetry on this forum.
Actually, we do occasionally offer constructive criticisms when it would be beneficial. However, such 'critiques' would more likely be sent via PM.

~Makera

Byron~
Oh, you beat me to the post. Sorry old chap, you can be gracious 'cause it's your poem, but I won't wear that crap! She needs to 'put up' or 'shut up'! D'you think I wouldn't have noticed a "literary sin" if there had been one!
Poetry, as art from the heart, cannot be constrained by 'rules'. For a parallel of the feelings you have expressed....
http://www.4umi.com/gibran/prophet/16.htm

~Gennelle

i'm by far not experiensed in poetry and i have no idea which poems are good, which are poor. I think none of us is going to write professionally and that is why we critisize each other very little (actually allmost not at all) I do think poets here could use some some advices sometimes (like me) but mostly it's just non-proffesional poetry at it's finest.
I love this poem and i love very many others too.

Thank you Byron for accepting what I wrote in the appropriate spirit.

I am afraid others have set up a false test of suggesting only experienced/professional poets may criticise.

Anyway, AAPC is a newgroup, alt.arts.poetry.comments but I believe they have a FAQ as well. Try Google for that. The NG is very heavy with trolls and troublemakers but there are many others who would offer constructive comments as well. Why not just post this poem there and see. You can pick any name to post under!

I could offer a critique of your poem but I really do not wish this to actually become a provocative intervention. Someone else has already, wholly wrongly, already suggested it is.

Yep, there ya go....de Nile, and it ain't a river in Egypt.
Ah, this does bring a "simile to my faith".

Hi Helen ~

Welcome to the Forum ! Did you come here because you have interest in Leonard? Or did someone happen to mention that we have a poetry section for members, and you were curious as to how Leonard Cohen appreciators [that presumes that you already knew who Leonard is, of course!] would write/critique/etc.

I can speak for myself, as someone who does not write/post poetry here. I don't know the "rules" of poetry, except to know that they have changed through the years, as different types of poetry have emerged. I love poetry, but I personally [unless I were trying to hone my art] would not be interested in reading poem after poem after poem of poems written by amateurs-to-professionals, whom I don't know. I don't have that kind of time.

However, here, we communicate with each other on many different things, starting with Leonard. When people write their poems, I am seeing a different aspect of someone I already know in other ways. I don't say a poem is good or is bad. However, I do say how it affects me, what I like about it, or what makes me uncomfortable with it. It's subjectivity being presented subjectively. By intent. Poems cause me to feel, and I like that aspect of them very much. I like the insights that poetry often brings me. I like seeing how people's minds work, what triggers their thoughts, their emotions. We have never had a prerequisite of being a published poet; a promising, hoping-to-be published poet; explicitly or implicitly. This area of the Forum is friends sharing with friends.

However, as Makera has noted, if you are choosing to make your point regarding objectivity and critiqueing, I feel it would be wholly appropriate for you to do so here. You have already prefaced what you've said with explaining how it is all meant in a kindly and constructive spirit. It's not too late to do so, if you choose. I personally find it difficult to consider "absolutely slaughtered"/"every literary 'sin' going!" and "no wish to sound mean"/"kind spirit" in the same posting, with the same essence of meaning. I can't help but wonder at the "Raining" poem you chose for your message, as your posting puts me in mind of the song, "Don't Rain On My Parade." You've brought the rain, absent the umbrella of constructive criticism.

You also could post one of your own poems. If we don't understand its excellence, you could explain it, and we could learn through that process. It has, as Makera also noted, been done here previously, where more critiqueing has been done. For those aspiring to the literary realms, I think/know your site referrals would be of great interest. However, it seems many of us here simply enjoy sharing our hearts.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

Hi Wonder - I agree with your comments I do think there are a lot of compliments for poems which are below/average but I think the people who post their poetry here do it as a leisure activity, as a sounding board and not for reasons other than that. I often wish people wouldn't give a stock response to poems regardless of content.

Some of the poems are really bad but they still get a positive response and it take the icing off the responses people get for poems which are quite good. I am sure the people who post their poems here would benefit more from fair appraisal rather than well meant but inaccurate comments.

Having said that I don't write poetry so I try not to comment on any of it unless I see something that really takes my fancy and I know the ones that do post the poems enjoy doing what they are doing and that is the main reason for the poetry forum.

Hi Helen...welcome to the forum.
I like your straight-talking post....if folks post a poem on a public domain (myself included) we should be able to accept all criticism that comes our way. And I believe there must be some accountability or quality control that separates the good from the bad, the bad from the ugly.

p.s. I think Miranda went this route before you.....

p.p.s On a more general note, I think it is imperative the webmaster implement some mechanism - whether mechanistically or simply by word - to prevent what is technically known as "flooding" on a internet forum, whereby a few people post a lot and thus it appears that their opinion is the majority opinion. I think Partisan went this route before me.....

There's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism. If you're going to advocate and laud it, then "show us the beef." Along the same lines, if you have an opinion, express it. Then, yours won't be misunderstood, misinterpreted, or missed.

~ Elizabeth