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What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:43 am
by mat james
What! Abandon the path?

I walked
along the earthen path
among the sloping green
with an umbrella and the rain

Stop, I whispered
go home

What!
Abandon the path
because of discomfort?

I sauntered on
with my umbrella
and my rain

and only slipped
to my knees
once.

Matj

Re: What! Abandon the path?

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:25 am
by Casey Butler
And only slipped to my knees Once.
Did you clean your dress afterwards?

Re: What! Abandon the path?

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:21 am
by mat james
I'm not a cross-dresser Casey. :)
Matj (Mat J)

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:02 am
by Casey Butler
Since now it was a Buddha moment... I never said you were a cross-dresser. I'm sure you are a loyal trooper - you are just following orders. Peace, mat... :-)

Your poem brought to mind my favorite parable from the Lotus Sutra, my favorite book:

"Monks, you must understand this. The Thus Come One in his use of expedient means penetrates deeply into the nature of living beings. He knows how their minds delight in petty doctrines and how deeply they are attached to the five desires. And because they are like this, when he expounds nirvana, he does so in such a way that these persons, hearing it, can readily believe and accept it.

"Let us suppose there is a stretch of bad road five hundred yojanas long, steep and difficult, wild and deserted, with no inhabitants around, a truly fearful place. And suppose there are a number of people who want to pass over this road so they can reach a place where there are rare treasures. They have a leader, of comprehensive wisdom and keen understanding, who is thoroughly acquainted with this steep road, knows the layout of its passes and defiles, and is prepared to guide the group of people and go with them over this difficult terrain.

"The group he is leading, after going part way on the road, become disheartened and say to the leader, `We are utterly exhausted and fearful as well. We cannot go any farther. Since there is still such a long distance ahead, we would like now to turn around and go back.´

"The leader, a man of many expedients, thinks to himself, What a pity that they should abandon the many rare treasures they are seeking and want to turn and go back! Having had this thought, he resorts to the power of expedient means and, when they have gone three hundred yojanas along the steep road, conjures up a city. He says to the group, `Don't be afraid! You must not turn back, for now here is a great city where you can stop, rest, and do just as you please. If you enter this city you will be completely at ease and tranquil. Then later, if you feel you can go on to the place where the treasure is, you can leave the city.´

"At that time the members of the group, being utterly exhausted, are overjoyed in mind, exclaiming over such an unprecedented event, `Now we can escape from this dreadful road and find ease and tranquility!´ The people in the group thereupon press forward and enter the city where, feeling that they have been saved from their difficulties, they have a sense of complete ease and tranquility.

"At that time the leader, knowing that the people have become rested and are no longer fearful or weary, wipes out the phantom city and says to the group, `You must go now. The place where the treasure is, is close by. That great city of a while ago was a mere phantom that I conjured up so that you could rest.´

"Monks, the Thus Come One is in a similar position. He is now acting as a great leader for you. He knows that the bad road of birth and death and earthly desires is steep, difficult, long and far-stretching, but that it must be traveled, it must be passed over. If living beings hear only of the one Buddha vehicle, then they will not want to see the Buddha, will now want to draw near him, but will immediately think to themselves, The Buddha road is long and far reaching and one must labor diligently and undergo difficulties over a long period before he can ever attain success!

"The Buddha knows that the minds of the living beings are timid, weak and lowly, and so, using the power of expedient means, he preaches two nirvanas in order to provide a resting place along the road. If living beings choose to remain in these two stages, then the Thus Come One will say to them, `You have not yet understood that is to be done. This stage where you have chosen to remain is close to the Buddha wisdom. But you should observe and ponder further. This nirvana that you have attained is not the true one. It is simply that the Thus Come One, using the power of expedient means, has taken the one Buddha vehicle and, making distinctions, has preached it as three.´

"The Buddha is like that leader who, in order to provide a place to rest, conjured up a great city and then, when he knew that the travelers were already rested, said to them, `The place where the treasure is, is nearby. This city is not real. It is merely something I conjured up.´" [BRT-Lotus - Chapter 7:286-294]

Follow him. Maybe he's still trustworthy, maybe he's still watching, maybe he still cares - he sure isn't interested in listening to me. But who is these days? Oh, Salem, growing marble arches!

Casey

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:04 pm
by Steven
Hi Mat,

A slip, in this poem, doesn't indicate whether the slipper fell on or off the
path. The Buddha slipped (from good health -- was emaciated, almost died
from ascetic practices, before abandoning extremism for a middle way)
and that slippage, was part of the path or journey. There is an artful
ambiguity in the poem.

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:23 am
by Casey Butler
Steven wrote:Hi Mat,

A slip, in this poem, doesn't indicate whether the slipper fell on or off the
path. The Buddha slipped (from good health -- was emaciated, almost died
from ascetic practices, before abandoning extremism for a middle way)
and that slippage, was part of the path or journey. There is an artful
ambiguity in the poem.
Isn't the phrase "The Buddha" in this context a misnomer? I mean, Siddhartha after
achieving Buddhahood neither abandoned nor adopted new attitudes or practices
for himself. Having achieved the Wisdom Embracing All Species, that would have
been impossible for him to do anyway.

Such Wisdom never changes and cannot be lost once attained.

Further, identifying Shakyamuni as "The Buddha" is IMHO inadvertant blasphemy
against the billions of Buddhas that preceded him and the billions to follow. The
goal of all Buddhas, after all, is enlightenment of all species, the salvation of all
living beings, the elevation of all to equality with all Buddhas. Shakyamuni himself
would object vociferously.

Of course all Buddhas use expedient means to preach the One Vehicle, which
expediencies freely include extremism, fanaticism, middle ways, emptiness,
and everything in between.

But a Buddha's use of expedient means does not mean that Buddha has strayed
from Wisdom s/he has already achieved, or that s/he has modified h/er/is
practices to avoid "slipping". That would be impossible.

I point this out because today virtually nothing exists except the One Vehicle
as represented by the expedient means of thousands of disciples of billions
of Buddhas.

It's the work of these well-meaning Bodhisattvas that is hindering us today.
All species follow the Original Buddha Of No Mind And No Thought, but none
of their teachers, who are the Buddhas' disciples, want to un-conjure the cities
they've conjured up under the expedient means of the billions of Buddhas past.

I hope to change all that with the help of the Buddhas.

Another Jewel of a Sutra I love:

1. At one time the Bodhisattva Manjushri was seated on a jewelled lotus, having a five-knotted crown on his head, his dark blue hair hanging down to his shoulders, his bodily form that of shining gold, his left hand of concentration holding a blue lotus with a five-pronged vajra above it, his right hand of wisdom grasping a sutra-box, and his body shining like an autumn rainbow.

2. Peacefully dwelling in the state of concentration called the "Moon-Ring," he spoke to the Buddha, saying, "World-Honored-One. We all have, from the distant past, listened to the Tathagata's preaching of the Dharma. From which Buddha did the Tathagata hear this preaching of the Dharma-sounds?"

3. The Buddha spoke to Manjushri, saying, "I received the preaching of Great Sun Buddha after passing through the forty-one levels to enter the great inner chamber."

4. The Bodhisattva Manjushri again spoke to the Buddha, saying, "Who is within the inner chamber of the forty-one levels?"

5. The World-Honored-One again said, "After passing through the ten stages of abodes, the ten stages of practices, the ten stages of merit-transference, ten bodhisattva stages, the stage of becoming comparable to enlightenment, and entering the inner chamber, I received the preaching of the Dharma by Great Sun Buddha, who is at the stage of wonderful enlightenment.

6. The Bodhisattva Manjushri again spoke to the Buddha, saying, "From what Buddha did Great Sun Buddha on the stage of wonderful enlightenment receive this preaching of the Dharma?"

7. The World-Honored-One replied, "Great Sun Buddha on the stage of wonderful enlightenment received the preaching of the Dharma from the beginningless and endless original Buddha who is of one mind and one thought.

8. The Bodhisattva Manjushri again spoke to the Buddha saying, "From what Buddha did 'the beginningless and endless original Buddha who is of one mind and one thought' receive the preaching of the Dharma?"

9. The World-Honored-One again said, "'The beginningless and endless original Buddha who is of one mind and one thought' received the preaching of the Dharma from the original Buddha of no mind and no thought."

10. Manjushri again spoke to the Buddha, saying, "From what Buddha did the 'original Buddha of no mind and no thought' receive the preaching of the Dharma?"

11. The World-Honored-One again said, "There is no Buddha above and beyond the 'original Buddha of no mind and no thought.' There is no Buddha before and no Buddha after 'no mind and no thought.' The original Buddha is in essence beyond conceptual understanding. From the beginning he/it does not go nor come, does not have the nature of the threefold body, does not have the nature of the ten destinies."

12. Manjushri again spoke to the Buddha, saying, "If above and beyond the original Buddha of no mind and no thought there is no nature of the threefold body and the ten destinies, from what basis do the threefold body and ten destinies arise?"

13. The World-Honored-One again said, "The original Buddha of no mind and no thought is by nature beyond conceptual understanding. Both the conceptually understood natures of the threefold body, and sentient beings in the ten destinies, and the nature of that which is without a nature, arise from the nature that is beyond conceptual understanding."

14. Manjushri again spoke to the Buddha, saying, "If this is so, then is there no Buddha who teaches at the beginning?"

15. The World-Honored-One again said, "There is nothing that teaches or receives above and beyond the original Buddha of no mind and no thought. Moreover, this is a single Buddha, and there are not two Buddhas. You all should shut your eyes and contemplate the original Buddha that is without beginning and without end."

16. Manjushri spoke to the Buddha, saying, "That which the World-Honored-One preaches is exceedingly profound. It is true, yet beyond our power to comprehend. It is good; it is good. I gladly preach this sutra."

17. At that time the Tathagata named King of Imposing Sound spoke to Manjushri, the prince of the Dharma, saying, "Well done, prince of the Dharma. You have questioned the Tathagata in such a way that it is cause for a great event. Now listen carefully. listen carefully. Reflect well on these things."

18. The Buddha, after preaching this sutra, sat in the lotus position and entered the concentration samadhi that is wonderful and supreme. At that time Manjushri, prince of the Dharma, and everyone in the assembly of eighty-four thousand monks, all entered this samadhi through the supranormal power of the Buddha.

19. The following events were seen. The Buddha, from within his state of concentration, emitted a great circle of light from his own face, illuminating with insight Manjushri and the eighty-four thousand monks. A sword of wisdom appeared from the top of Manjushri's head, and from his side emerged a golden-haired lion. The Tathagata's ray of light extended everywhere, and the colour of his body was like that of gold.

20. Manjushri spoke to the Buddha, saying, "World-Honored-One. We have attained unprecedented insight. Our hearts greatly rejoice."

21. The Tathagata again preached in a verse, saying,

22. The supreme path of all Buddhas

23. Has the marks of perfect light

24. And eternal abiding.

25. Those who enter meditative concentration

26. Together with the Buddha

27. In the same way realize

28. The mind of enlightenment.

29. When the Buddha finished preaching these verses, the great monks in the assembly at once stood up, bowed, and went on their way.

Casey

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:24 pm
by mat james
Hi Steven,
artful
ambiguity
I like that comment very much. Thanks.
Artful ambiguity ???
Yes, that's it. :D 8)
Hi Casey,
I'm pleased to see you were taken back to your favoured sutras.
I love the concept of personal dhamma (ones "own truth" as opposed to "the truth")
"Those who enter meditative concentration
(Together with the Buddha) or (as the Buddha taught)
In the same way realize
The mind of enlightenment."
This quote (above) is enough Casey.
It leads one to their own dhamma. (Game, set and match!)
The rest is heresay and waffle and over-kill.
Keep it simple
because it is.

Matj

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:48 am
by Casey Butler
mat james wrote:I'm pleased to see you were taken back to your favoured sutras.
I love the concept of personal dhamma (ones "own truth" as opposed to "the truth")
Personal Dhamma is expedient means cast from from a hook you may have chosen to bite on...

Simple is one truth, I think. Complicated is many truths. Hitler had his truth, Stalin had his, Cohen has his rock-a-bye baby truths. There are lots to choose from. But I'll wager when the Beast you've built along with me comes banging on your door in the middle of the night one truth might appear simpler and more attractive than many. That's what it's taken.

As long as it's happening to the Anne Franks and other odd balls of the world and not you, who cares right...

If you don't want to discuss it intelligently in front of your friends, just say so. I understand peer pressure, and the hidden oppression authority figures and idols wield to manipulate their underlings and their fans.

You understand that's just what it's taken.

Casey

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:24 pm
by mat james
It all sounds like a sunday school sermon, Casey.
You seem to know all that needs to be known. 8)
Simple is one truth
That wouldn't be "your truth" by any chance, would it? :roll:

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:17 pm
by Casey Butler
mat james wrote:It all sounds like a sunday school sermon, Casey.
You seem to know all that needs to be known. 8)
Simple is one truth
That wouldn't be "your truth" by any chance, would it? :roll:
Ah, another "Sermon on the Mount which I don't pretend to understand at all..." guy?

I think our truths are likely identical, Mat.

I just voice them because I'm one of the fools.

Casey

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:38 pm
by Cate
Hi Mat

I like at the beginning you were walking with the rain - not in the rain.
Later you embrace both the rain and the umbrella as your own - my rain - my umbrella.
I'm guessing the man in the rain also accepts his path as well.

Cate

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:50 pm
by Casey Butler
In our Famous Blue Raincoat.

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:18 am
by mat james
I'm guessing the man in the rain also accepts his path as well.
good point Cate.
There is a big difference between "The Path" and "my path".
(Though Casey may prick her ears and turn her nose at that cognition) :lol:

Mat.

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:33 am
by lizzytysh
I think Casey's a guy.


~ Lizzy

Re: What! Abandon the path? (a buddha moment)

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:04 pm
by mat james
(Though Casey may prick her ears and turn her nose at that cognition)
I think Casey's a guy.
~ Lizzy

Looks like you are right, Lizzy.