Sligo-Help for newbies.

[mnkyface]

Giant puppet terrorizes Sligo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhjJqQBFAw

[real-alan]

Giant puppet terrorizes Sligo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhjJqQBFAw

ah, so now we know what Carlowmike looks like.... (sorry Mick... no offence... really.... )

[ladydi]

Esther...that is SO funny! Obviously he wasn't there for Leonard's concerts at the end of July/beginning of August! Perhaps he was a Westlife fan.

real-alan....can't be Mick. I didn't see any winky-face

[sturgess66]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fea ... 49227.html

'They don't do subtlety do they?'


Lissadell owners Edward Walsh and Constance Cassidy. Photographs: James Connolly / PicSell8, Collins Courts

* Domestic dispute: Lissadell House in Co Sligo is closed to the public following the High Court ruling against owners Edward Walsh and Constance Cassidy

‘Keep Out’ signs now adorn the grounds of Lissadell in Co Sligo, the latest development in a long-running disagreement over rights of way. Many locals applaud the owners’ restoration of the property, but most are angry and bemused by their approach to the dispute, writes ROSITA BOLAND

IT IS A month now since the High Court found on December 20th that public rights of way during daylight hours did indeed exist at the Lissadell estate in Co Sligo. Mr Justice Bryan McMahon had considered the evidence after 58 days in court, where the owners of Lissadell, Edward Walsh and Constance Cassidy, claimed that Sligo County Council had wrongfully asserted rights of way over their estate.

The couple, whose primary residence is at Morristown Lattin in Co Kildare, bought the house in 2003 for €3.75 million, and started to develop the estate soon after. They restored the house, gardens, and the former coach house, which was turned into an exhibition centre. They opened a tearoom, held two high-profile Leonard Cohen concerts there last summer, and spent an estimated €9.5 million in the process.

They also gradually closed off certain access points to the estate, locking gates and restricting use of various routes through the 410 acre estate. In December 2008, Sligo County Council voted to amend the county’s development plan to include “the preservation of public rights of way” along the four roads that run through Lissadell. The dispute ended up in court, and the house and gardens were closed for much of the intervening time.

Since the judgment, the gates to Lissadell have re-opened, but the house, gardens, exhibition centre and tearoom remain shut. In addition, an extensive amount of fencing, signs, barbed wire and boulders have gone up all over the estate. Last week I counted 22 large red and white “Keep Out, Private Property” signs alone, which stand on the avenue borders. Boulders and rubble now block what were passing out places on the avenue, thus preventing cars from parking there, or from easily passing oncoming traffic. Fences, and lines of new fencing stakes awaiting wire, march along the perimeter of every field. Barbed wire is wrapped around stanchions lying on the ground near the house. Everywhere you look, there is either a “Keep Out” sign or a new fence clearly visible. You would not describe Lissadell today as a visually welcoming place to any visitor.

JOE LEONARD IS THE current chairman of Sligo County Council and the councillor who originally tabled the motion about rights of way at the estate. He has been at Lissadell since the fencing went up. What does he think of it?

“Well now. Well now. What to say about that? They don’t do subtlety, do they?” he says frankly, in the Co Council offices overlooking the Garavogue. “I hope it’s not a physical manifestation of what they think of their neighbours. A barbed wire solution is not the way of the future. It was never necessary before to erect fortifications at Lissadell. What I want to see is Lissadell preserved for future generations, and in my opinion, that is best achieved through co-operation with the local community.”

Leonard admits to relief that Sligo County Council won the case, not only because of re-establishing public rights of way, but also as the case came at a time when local authority funding is scarcer than ever. There will be a hearing early next month at which costs will be decided: it has been estimated they will be in the region of €3 million-plus. “It has to be welcomed that the place is no longer privatised.”

He is anxious to point out that “it is abundantly clear that the wider community in Sligo welcomes the restoration and work done at Lissadell”. So why does he think the fencing has gone up? What message is it sending to the community? There’s silence. Then he shrugs his shoulders, and looks genuinely baffled. “I don’t know. I just don’t know.”

One of the many people living close to Lissadell who appeared in court to recount their memories of the public use of the estate is Jim Meehan, a business consultant of Urlar, Drumcliffe. “It is good we can freely express opinions now that the court case is over,” he says quietly. “I feel for the owners,” Meehan says. “They’ve done good work with the estate. But I think they could have been more prudent, and talked to people. Negotiation was the surest and easiest way through this. If they had built relationships locally, I can’t see any of this having happened. I don’t want to be going to court with my neighbours on any issue.”

Speaking of the fencing, he says: “It doesn’t seem to make any sense to local people, and it doesn’t do anything for the situation. In all the times I’ve been at Lissadell, I’ve never seen anyone misuse those paths. There are maybe a couple of hundred people who consistently use those roads through Lissadell, walking and cycling and driving. You could think of them as an unpaid community security service with their eyes and ears watching out.

“Everyone knows everyone else walking those roads. I would see these people as an asset on the estate, not as a security threat.”

“Frankly, I was surprised at the outcome of the case,” admits Stella Mew, chief executive of the Yeats Society, whose students used to regularly visit Lissadell House. “I don’t think it makes the slightest bit of difference to the community. They’re delighted that they won, but it seems to be a Pyrrhic victory. I can’t see that the locals were terribly deprived of anything prior to the case – what did they want? I don’t want to express criticism of locals, but there is a difference between access and trespass.”

Mew has not been back to Lissadell since the gates reopened, but she – in common with everyone in Sligo I spoke to – was fully aware of the new security precautions.

“I think the barriers send a message of huge disappointment by the owners. It’s a great pity. At the end of the day, there are huge bills now to be paid, and there has been no good outcome. I can’t see who has benefited from this case.”

“I think the community in general would like to see the house and estate open, and the Walsh-Cassidys did sterling work on the gardens,” says artist Michael Wann, who lives close to the estate and was a vocal supporter of local rights of way.

“I’d like to see the house back on the Yeats trail, and I can’t see why they can’t run the place as a viable tourist amenity. I would hope the Walsh-Cassidys accept the judge’s decision and don’t appeal. I certainly hope they won’t appeal but we have never really understood their way of thinking.”

ALTHOUGH PEOPLE ON the streets of Sligo initially stopped politely when approached, most of them immediately walked away when they heard Lissadell mentioned. “I’m sick of it all,” was a typical response, as was “I don’t live in that part of Sligo, so it has nothing to do with me” and “I have no interest in talking about Lissadell”.

Many of those who did talk made it clear that they were not just angry, but also highly insulted by the erection of fencing and other measures taken at the estate.

“The barricades are a pure disgrace,” said a woman coming out of Tesco, who did not want to give her name. “And I don’t see why the place should ever have been closed at all. The owners should have known that there were rights of way before they purchased it. There’s nothing stopping them from opening the house, and it should be open. It’s not right to deprive the people of Sligo, and tourists to the area, the opportunity to visit the estate.”

“It should never have gone to court,” offers Aquinas Gallagher, shopping in Johnston’s Court mall. “The owners should have had the right to say when people should come and go from their land, is what I think. I do have sympathy with the owners. It’s a terrible pity the house is closed, because it was a very good place for tourists to go.”

“The owners should have compromised with the council about the paths. They should have sat down together and talked about the road going round the house, but they didn’t. They were very adamant they wanted to go to court and they made it very clear they thought they were going to win,” said Margaret from Easkey.

“I feel sorry for them because they paid so much for the place without knowing all the details of access,” Annette Brett of Tubbercurry declared. “We haven’t that many places to go on Sundays in Sligo, and the gardens and tearoom were lovely places to go, and to bring people. It’s a loss. You’d wonder was it all about stubbornness on both parts at the end of the day.”

WHEN CONTACTED AND asked if they were considering an appeal, why the fences had gone up at the estate, and where they saw the future developments at Lissadell going, the Walsh-Cassidys had no comment.

Until a few days ago, their website lissadellhouse.com carried this statement: “Because of the judgment, Lissadell is incapable of operation as a family home or tourist facility for reasons of security, insurance and maintenance.”

The site now says: “Our vision was to transform the estate into a flagship for tourism in Sligo and the North West, whilst providing a secure environment for our children and for our visitors. We did not wish to exploit Lissadell commercially but to restore the house and gardens to their former glory, make Lissadell self-sustaining and protect this crucible of Ireland’s historic and literary heritage. This was our vision for Lissadell. Our vision is now at an end.”

The rocky road to Lissadell closure

[Mabeanie1]

Lnda

Unless I am very much mistaken, this article was posted yesterday by real-alan (see previous page).

Wendy

[real-alan]

Lnda

Unless I am very much mistaken, this article was posted yesterday by real-alan (see previous page).

Wendy

you're not mistaken.... but hey, it's worth a second read...

[carlowmike]

Here is our old friend, Keith McNair, of "Discover Sligo" ( fond memories ) riding to the rescue.
I do know that more concerts ( not Leonard as far as I know ) were / are planned for Lissadell for 2011 and 2012...
all may not be lost yet ........

The Irish Times - Thursday, January 20, 2011
Tour operator calls for 'rescue' of Lissadell
A PROMINENT tour operator has warned that one of the northwest’s prime attractions, Lissadell House, needs to be rescued from a shutdown following a High Court rights-of-way decision.
Keith McNair, director of Discover Sligo, said his organisation had found Lissadell, the childhood home of Constance Markievicz, to be a first-class attraction.
He said the court decision last month giving the public daytime rights of way across the estate had left Sligo people with a choice: to insist on their right, or nurture Lissadell’s tourism potential and not thwart the owners in their management of it.

He said: “Lissadell is a business, not a public park. We, the people of Sligo, need Lissadell and many other such projects to operate as successful businesses. The State not only cannot afford Lissadell, it doesn’t know how to manage it or realise its potential.”
Lissadell owners Eddie Walsh and his wife Constance Cassidy opened four roads passing through the estate within hours of the court decision in favour of Sligo County Council’s argument that the public had rights of way.

Soon afterwards, the owners placed barbed wire and poles around the house to protect their property and boulders blocked access to a valuable Yeats exhibition in a nearby coach house.
Mr McNair said: “Barbed wire is a defensive action. The owners of Lissadell feel that their property is under attack. They have come into the area and invested a huge amount of money without any tax relief or any grant system. They created a huge number of jobs. There was a massive economic benefit for the area.”

He suggested the rights-of-way issue could be resolved by the provision of an alternative route to the beach that would enable Lissadell’s integrity as a property to be maintained.
He claimed Lissadell brought nearly €20 million into the area last year with organised visits to the estate and a weekend of Leonard Cohen and Westlife concerts.

If a German or other foreign factory was setting up in Sligo there would be no shortage of facilities to accommodate the project, he said, but the Lissadell owners put €12 million into purchase and refurbishment of the estate without any State help.

Mr McNair added: “The Lissadell owners’ concerns are not being properly addressed or satisfied.
“For years we talked about flagship attractions. Here, a flagship attraction comes along and we’re shooting ourselves in the foot.”

Mr McNair said he had 1,000 signatures of Sligo people supporting the Lissadell owners’ insistence that the estate cannot operate as a viable tourism operation with open public access.
Fears are strong that Lissadell is unlikely to be reopened by the owners and plans for another big summer concert in the grounds this year appear to have been shelved.

[Mabeanie1]

There are two things going on at the moment which have left a very nasty taste in my mouth. One is the sale of the Bird On a Wire reels. The other is the actions of the owners of Lissadell. Both claim to have some sort of altruistic motive - the former to return something to the fans (at a "bargain" price of just £1,000 a piece - go figure), the other: to protect the local economy and culture, or something like it. However, I cannot shake off the feeling that behind the scenes, both have their own, very different agenda.

What is the problem at Lissadell?? My God, are the locals so dangerous that they need barbed wire to keep them out and protect the Cassidys' property? Why can't they just lock their doors and install an alarm system like ordinary people? Do rights of way jeopardise the owners ability to recover their costs by charging people to visit Lissadell? Of course they don't. Charge people to park their cars. Charge people to visit the house. Charge people to see the gardens. Just leave those few locals who want to use the rights of way to do so. As for the concerts - well, let's face it. They were useful publicity in the midst of the Cassidys' legal battles weren't they. Anyone feel just a little bit used?

Wendy

[real-alan]

What is the problem at Lissadell?? My God, are the locals so dangerous that they need barbed wire to keep them out and protect the Cassidys' property? Why can't they just lock their doors and install an alarm system like ordinary people? Do rights of way jeopardise the owners ability to recover their costs by charging people to visit Lissadell? Of course they don't. Charge people to park their cars. Charge people to visit the house. Charge people to see the gardens. Just leave those few locals who want to use the rights of way to do so. As for the concerts - well, let's face it. They were useful publicity in the midst of the Cassidys' legal battles weren't they. Anyone feel just a little bit used?

Wendy

having been aware of the background prior to the (wonderful) weekend at Lissadel, I resisted the post-concert euphoria of "supporting" the Cassidys as hard-done-by victims of a vindictive council.... I suspected that there was right (and wrong) on both sides of the dispute (there usually is...) - I (still) don't know enough of the detail to take sides, but I am certainly disappointed that the Cassidys have taken the action they have... smacks a little of "taking my ball home" to me... and, as far as I know, while there are a few "chancers" around Sligo, I doubt there are more than anywhere else.... and I've been to plenty of grand houses where the rights of way are marked out, and respected.... they may have wealth, and a legal background, but they don't seem to have realised how valuable having public opinion on your side can be in matters like this.... they seem determined to antagonise the people of Sligo, which will give great succour to the council.... all very sad to me...

[Mabeanie1]

Alan

Thanks for your post. It's good to have an impartial view from a local.

Wendy

[carlowmike]

by real-alan » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:11 am

mnkyface wrote:
Giant puppet terrorizes Sligo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhjJqQBFAw
ah, so now we know what Carlowmike looks like.... (sorry Mick... no offence... really.... )

me cover is blown ~~~~~~~ -
when I am not this Giant puppet that you see,
I sit before the Forum jury

[jdhayes]

I think the character is a bit too tall to be you Mick. I'd say it's a barrister enjoying the money made from the court case regarding the right-of-way. If it cost 6 million, somebody or bodies must be very rich indeed.

[carlowmike]

I post this for members of the Forum who may have known or met John during his lifetime.
On the 31st December last I posted a New Year's message on this thread (page 63).
I also texted it to some friends, one such friend was John,
he read the text at 5pm , three hours later he was gone.
John was a member of this Forum for a number of years and encouraged me to register in 2008.
He was a serious fan of Leonard and his works, he was very engaging when discussing (with great enthusiasm) Leonard, his life and his lyrics.
I knew him for 35 years, we became solid friends and travelled to many countries together.
in 2006, John brought me to Florence, Italy, to act as bestman at his wedding.
John was highly regarded as a medical doctor and many of his grateful patients expressed their sorrow at his passing on boards.ie and various other tribute sites on the internet.
Here is a short extract from the report published in the Carlow People newspaper.

Carlow was left reeling this week following the tragic death of a well respected Carlow doctor who died from smoke inhalation on New Year's Eve following a house fire at his home in Clonee, Dublin..
50 year-old Dr. John Corish was from a well known Carlow family. He was a much adored husband, father and brother.
He had established a successful private practice as a consultant psychiatrist and along with his wife, Eithne, had operated a medical centre at Maynooth Medical Hall in county Kildare.
Dr. Corish had a great love for literature and classical music, and could, from memory, quote passages from Joyce, Shakespeare and the Greek philosophers apropos to the moment.
He was a life-long fan of the music, lyrics and poetry of Leonard Cohen and had planned to visit Las Vegas in December with his close friend, archivist and local historian Michael Purcell, for Cohen's last concert but had to cancel at the last minute.
He was a loving husband and an adoring father to his four-year-old daughter Emma.

[musicmania]

Hi Mick.

Although I did not know John I do know how devastated you have been since his passing. Thank you for sharing this with us here today. It was a very sad ending for someone obviously so well loved and respected, may John Rest in Peace. I cannot begin to imagine your pain and my thoughts are with you. I had being planning on sending you a message this week to see how you have been. I hope you are ok.

[jeney]

I have attended Dr Eithne at the surgery in Maynooth, met John in passing a few times. He was highly regarded by the people up here. Mick is it true that John once put Leonard's name on a prescription ?