bee, bee, bee... beehave yourself. You're getting nasty again.
Just accept various positions. Your mind, judging from your paintings, is certainly able to do the job. Your decision, dear..
tom
Kris Kristofferson
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tom.d.stiller
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bee, you are right jurica didn't ask for help and he certainly doesn't need it from me. You are spot on there. Neither does anyone else 'need my help'.
I said something about your attitude in this thread (and your political views in others) because it was a bit offensive to me, and others have commented on your "attack if they don't agree" mode, and always you roll out the stock standard responses to them also. This is a forum and a community and things said are public and the business of all involved. You don't have to respond to me any more than I do to you.
As for the 'bystander' mentality, it's probably not my business that the kids down the road are lighting fires in the national park, or that the guy in the suburb is abusing his child or that smokers throw their cigarette butts out the window in high fire season, but I sure as hell will say or do what I can to stop it. Maybe it's the 'humanitarien' in me, maybe I shuld have not suggested that someone gave you a 'brake' or a muzzle, but admit it - you just LOVE this
PS
I said something about your attitude in this thread (and your political views in others) because it was a bit offensive to me, and others have commented on your "attack if they don't agree" mode, and always you roll out the stock standard responses to them also. This is a forum and a community and things said are public and the business of all involved. You don't have to respond to me any more than I do to you.
As for the 'bystander' mentality, it's probably not my business that the kids down the road are lighting fires in the national park, or that the guy in the suburb is abusing his child or that smokers throw their cigarette butts out the window in high fire season, but I sure as hell will say or do what I can to stop it. Maybe it's the 'humanitarien' in me, maybe I shuld have not suggested that someone gave you a 'brake' or a muzzle, but admit it - you just LOVE this
PS
bloody murder? I wasn't the one making threats honeyso now you are screaming bloody murder how come?
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Buddha
Buddha
Insinator- Sure-I love it, would I be here otherwise- 
threats???
I don't remember one, can you tell me how would I be a threat to you?or anyone else?
the dynamics of conversation would go on only if there is some objective-so if i can pose as one- it has nothin to do with my persona or personality- don't you get it, sinator? what is wrong with yoa?
threats???
I don't remember one, can you tell me how would I be a threat to you?or anyone else? the dynamics of conversation would go on only if there is some objective-so if i can pose as one- it has nothin to do with my persona or personality- don't you get it, sinator? what is wrong with yoa?
bee
juss be my keeper, as Linda is Celin's keeper, and you'll pull me outta dirty low ditch of nastiness to humakind, 
so de good Lord will reward ya for taking His precious dear child outta doom. 
loving bee-
tom.d.stiller
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O bee love,
Irony is an art, just like painting is. You needed a lot of practice to arrive at painting the way you do now. I could never paint like you easily do.
I won't be arrogant enough to pretend I could pull you out of whatever dirty low ditch you feel you're in. I can just offer the hand; you've got to pull yourself.
Your hand, I feel, is there, but not pulling, but pushing.
Am I an apiarist?
tom
Irony is an art, just like painting is. You needed a lot of practice to arrive at painting the way you do now. I could never paint like you easily do.
I won't be arrogant enough to pretend I could pull you out of whatever dirty low ditch you feel you're in. I can just offer the hand; you've got to pull yourself.
Your hand, I feel, is there, but not pulling, but pushing.
Am I an apiarist?
tom
this thread is obviously public, and Insanitor has the right to post as much as he wants and in any way as he wants. that's obvious, and bee knows that as well as i do. no reason to waste time and energy on that.
i just wanted to tell you what this post reminded me of:
By Phil Ochs
Look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I'd hate to blow the game
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.
Riding down the highway, yes, my back is getting stiff
Thirteen cars are piled up, they're hanging on a cliff.
Maybe we should pull them back with our towing chain
But we gotta move and we might get sued and it looks like it's gonna rain
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.
Sweating in the ghetto with the (colored/Panthers) and the poor
The rats have joined the babies who are sleeping on the floor
Now wouldn't it be a riot if they really blew their tops?
But they got too much already and besides we got the cops
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.
Oh there's a dirty paper using sex to make a sale
The Supreme Court was so upset, they sent him off to jail.
Maybe we should help the fiend and take away his fine. (*)
But we're busy reading Playboy and the Sunday New York Times
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
Smoking marihuana is more fun than drinking beer,
But a friend of ours was captured and they gave him thirty years
Maybe we should raise our voices, ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag, besides we're much too high
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
Oh look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I'd hate to blow the game
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
...the song was inspired by this well known incident:
On March 13, 1964, a 28 year old New York City woman gained world-wide recognition for her role in an event which even today is remembered by people everywhere, creating a legacy still held up as an example of American values, or lack thereof. There can be no doubt, however, that Kitty Genovese would have given all her worldly possessions to have avoided the global "fame" acquired on that Friday the 13th that gave to her the ultimate horror associated with this symbol of bad luck.
Even though 47,000 New York City residents have been murdered since, hers remains the most tragic because 38 "citizens" awakened by her cries for help watched as she was assaulted not once, but three times over a half hour period. Not only did they fail to come to her aid, they also failed to call the police for help. Vincent Mosely, her assailant, stabbed her several times, then left, only to return a few minutes later to cut her up a little more.
During his brief absence, these "decent" New Yorkers turned off their lights and went back to sleep, only to be awakened again by this second assault, a scene repeated a third time, after which she no longer needed the assistance she failed to get the first, second or even the third, and final time.
During Mosely's trial, witnesses made several statements, but one stands above the rest as a symbol of this tragic event and is the reason for its world-wide infamy: "We didn't want to get involved." No surprise to Mosely, for as he said: "I knew they wouldn't do anything - they never do."
Hundreds, if not thousands, of studies were done about this event and book after book after book announced the downfall of American values because of it.
One study concluded that on average, if more than 4 people witness an event, nobody will do anything. Each person will say to themselves "I don't have to get involved since there are other people here who can help."
i just wanted to tell you what this post reminded me of:
Outside Of A Small Circle Of FriendsInsanitor wrote:As for the 'bystander' mentality, it's probably not my business that the kids down the road are lighting fires in the national park, or that the guy in the suburb is abusing his child or that smokers throw their cigarette butts out the window in high fire season, but I sure as hell will say or do what I can to stop it.
By Phil Ochs
Look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I'd hate to blow the game
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.
Riding down the highway, yes, my back is getting stiff
Thirteen cars are piled up, they're hanging on a cliff.
Maybe we should pull them back with our towing chain
But we gotta move and we might get sued and it looks like it's gonna rain
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.
Sweating in the ghetto with the (colored/Panthers) and the poor
The rats have joined the babies who are sleeping on the floor
Now wouldn't it be a riot if they really blew their tops?
But they got too much already and besides we got the cops
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.
Oh there's a dirty paper using sex to make a sale
The Supreme Court was so upset, they sent him off to jail.
Maybe we should help the fiend and take away his fine. (*)
But we're busy reading Playboy and the Sunday New York Times
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
Smoking marihuana is more fun than drinking beer,
But a friend of ours was captured and they gave him thirty years
Maybe we should raise our voices, ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag, besides we're much too high
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
Oh look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I'd hate to blow the game
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
...the song was inspired by this well known incident:
On March 13, 1964, a 28 year old New York City woman gained world-wide recognition for her role in an event which even today is remembered by people everywhere, creating a legacy still held up as an example of American values, or lack thereof. There can be no doubt, however, that Kitty Genovese would have given all her worldly possessions to have avoided the global "fame" acquired on that Friday the 13th that gave to her the ultimate horror associated with this symbol of bad luck.
Even though 47,000 New York City residents have been murdered since, hers remains the most tragic because 38 "citizens" awakened by her cries for help watched as she was assaulted not once, but three times over a half hour period. Not only did they fail to come to her aid, they also failed to call the police for help. Vincent Mosely, her assailant, stabbed her several times, then left, only to return a few minutes later to cut her up a little more.
During his brief absence, these "decent" New Yorkers turned off their lights and went back to sleep, only to be awakened again by this second assault, a scene repeated a third time, after which she no longer needed the assistance she failed to get the first, second or even the third, and final time.
During Mosely's trial, witnesses made several statements, but one stands above the rest as a symbol of this tragic event and is the reason for its world-wide infamy: "We didn't want to get involved." No surprise to Mosely, for as he said: "I knew they wouldn't do anything - they never do."
Hundreds, if not thousands, of studies were done about this event and book after book after book announced the downfall of American values because of it.
One study concluded that on average, if more than 4 people witness an event, nobody will do anything. Each person will say to themselves "I don't have to get involved since there are other people here who can help."
I don't know much about the real historical figure of Andrei Rublev, but I didn't find it as of some greater importance to the Tarkovsky's film. I like his cinematic achievement of getting closer to the Divine (as a concept? Because lately I have some big difficulties with the church, God and everything a lot. But I still can see G-d or something divine, "beyond" the experienced world). I didn't see the movie recenlty, and I actually think Solaris or Stalker are better (particularly Stalker in terms of getting to the "Place" beyond). I recall I found the mid-parts of Andrei Rublev little to long but the grand finale was the real thing. Rublev finishes the painting, the wall fresco if I recall correct, and then we can see it in full colour, with sacral music - it is the actual divine cognition, an experience with religious qualities. But it takes some time and patience (abou three hour). And of course, I do not claim I get all what happened during the movie.
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
Jurica....sorry I have to butt in again...and if I am out of place I'm sure you or somebody else will let me know 
.
For every instance like the one you have mentioned there is also atleast one or more of public responding to help a totally unrelated victim in need. These include going into to burning homes to save a completely unrelated child by a bystander (I recall a recent incident of this), stepping in to prevent muggings etc etc. If I had the time I could make a long list of such incidents from newspaper cuttings but I don't.
But usually "art" needs some bad news to make a great song, and it is no doubt a great song. Mr. Ochs is telling the truth, but I don't believe it is the whole truth.
.For every instance like the one you have mentioned there is also atleast one or more of public responding to help a totally unrelated victim in need. These include going into to burning homes to save a completely unrelated child by a bystander (I recall a recent incident of this), stepping in to prevent muggings etc etc. If I had the time I could make a long list of such incidents from newspaper cuttings but I don't.
But usually "art" needs some bad news to make a great song, and it is no doubt a great song. Mr. Ochs is telling the truth, but I don't believe it is the whole truth.
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linda_lakeside
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- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
I guess Mr. Ochs couldn't deal with the whole truth as he took his own life in 1976. There are many instances of people doing tremendous deeds for complete strangers, of course, and then there is the flip side, which jurica pointed out. It's just damn ugly that the flip side is so apparent, so in the fore that it can't be avoided.
Linda.
Linda.
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
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linda_lakeside
- Posts: 3857
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
you are right, ofcourse.
there are many a good men who will help total strangers in need and everything. i was just trying to reinforce Insanitor's behavior in helping ME when he felt he needed to do that, by giving an extreme example of what happens when people just walk by not caring if someone needs help. it was just a song that his post reminded me of, so i copy/pasted it here (together with comments from the same web page that were underneath it) for anyone who may be interested.
thanx for the good wishes, bee. of course i wish everybody all the best not just for Valentine's day or any other day, but all the time.
there are many a good men who will help total strangers in need and everything. i was just trying to reinforce Insanitor's behavior in helping ME when he felt he needed to do that, by giving an extreme example of what happens when people just walk by not caring if someone needs help. it was just a song that his post reminded me of, so i copy/pasted it here (together with comments from the same web page that were underneath it) for anyone who may be interested.
thanx for the good wishes, bee. of course i wish everybody all the best not just for Valentine's day or any other day, but all the time.