Dublin, June 14-15 and now also 13!!!

[confetti]

i made it myself. I drink my coffee from it all day every day, probably the closest i will get to LC.
Ihave sold tickets to so many people for outdoor gigs and wished them good weather and almost all of them have told me it was great, I will be so scundered if it rains, but maybe a few glasses of red before the gig will cure my problem

[tiggs]

I do the sound at glasgowbury up in the sperrins every year. Everyone prays for sunshine but im stuck under canvas in the rock stage all day so dont care. For this one, as a punter, im really hoping for sunshine, I think the weather will be all good though

[tinderella]

On saying that, if he walks on the stage and theres a blizzard, it will still be like a sunny californian morning to me [/quote]
A man after my own heart Tiggs... are you a man lol? Anyways, thank you for your greeting for my birthday and I hope you have a fabulous one too...... Wish you were here for the friday meet up.

[tinderella]

by the way Tiggs... who has the Cohen mug on myspace.... just curious as I am a Myspace girl.

[confetti]

I do the sound at glasgowbury up in the sperrins every year. Everyone prays for sunshine but im stuck under canvas in the rock stage all day so dont care. For this one, as a punter, im really hoping for sunshine, I think the weather will be all good though

good old paddy, you going this year then? I haven't heard much about this year so far, I normally get tickets and such from them.

[William]

"I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me. "

I don't think Leonard had me in mind when he wrote this fisher.

Do you have any other response to disagreement other than a slap in the mouth? Apparently not.
You wasted your time in the tent in Slane it seems. And you'd have shot me ten years ago! Bravo! You'd have missed the concerts in Dublin and so would I, perish the thought.

MFL, why do you, too, have to bite your finger nails? Disagreement is fine, let me hear your argument, please.

daka -
serfdom and the IRA do NOT by any elastic stretch of the imagination come from the same period. I think you may have faction and imagination and six hundred years rolled into one story. I don't doubt you were told it but.....truth & history are not always the best bedfellows.

Fisher, MFL, Daka -
allow me to tell you a little story.
211 years ago in a barn in Co Wexford a number of Protestants were rounded up, locked in and burned to death by United Irishmen. Because they were Protestant. Three children of one family hid in a ditch and were not found. They escaped and made their way to Britain though they were not British, they were Irish.
211 years later a descendant still has a fondness for Ireland but not necessarily for violent Irish Republicanism.
It's like Cromwell - here he's viewed as a Republican saviour, there as a monster.
Truth, history......?

God bless,
William

[daka]

Thanks for solving the mystery, William!

Buddha Bless

Sean

[fisherinbelfast]

my dear willie boy i have many a response to disagreement but unlike you i believe in my goals enough to do whatever it takes to acheive them . it is so easy to talk a good game but as i have said in the past the english were never talked out of any country they were shot out.
"I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me. "

i don,t think leonard had you in mind either willie your not important enough , but i do believe he was talking about your goverment and many others.

[daka]

Jesus, William!

Now Ireland is only left with two immense challenges:

1 the unification of Ireland
2 the re-conversion of William to Catholicism

Thank God I'm a Buddhist!

I do apologize for the sins of my ancestors.

Do you ever contemplate, by the way, the similarities between the Chinese behaviour in Tibet, economic abuse and intimidation, political manipulations, watering the bloodlines, interfering in cultural and religious stability etc. etc. with what has happened in Ireland?

AGT

Sean

[tiggs]

by the way Tiggs... who has the Cohen mug on myspace.... just curious as I am a Myspace girl.

Confetti has the cohen mug an I want it Would love to be down for the whole weekend and catch every show, but what can you do.. you should drop by mine its reverend paul

[MFL]

211 years ago in a barn in Co Wexford a number of Protestants were rounded up, locked in and burned to death by United Irishmen. Because they were Protestant. Three children of one family hid in a ditch and were not found. They escaped and made their way to Britain though they were not British, they were Irish.
211 years later a descendant still has a fondness for Ireland but not necessarily for violent Irish Republicanism.

Scullabogue Barn, Co.Wexford 1798 You may be a year out however the story is recorded. I first heard this story in history class when I was about 10. I have never forgotten it. You see we do not choose which stories are told and which are forgotten, only when all information is given can you try and understand our shared past.

However there are a few points that need to be made. You wrote they were killed “Because they were Protestant”

The United Irishmen were formed mainly by Irish Protestants, having seen the injustice faced by the Irish Catholics they choose to unite and fight these injustices. Founder Wolfe Tone came from privileged Protestant ascendancy.
An example of this being at this time only between 7% -20% (different books quote different %) of Ireland’s land was owned by Irish Catholics. Land which families had owned and worked for hundreds of years had be taken over by British landlords, these people were then forced to pay high rents on there own land. Some of these landlords were merciless; families were evicted with very little cause. The Penal laws had been but in place. I will place a link here for it would take to long to give full details. So this was the backdrop to the Rising of 1798.
http://struggle.ws/andrew/1798.html

There are a few lines from this I will copy as it is important,
One of the most successful British strategies of 1798 and the years that followed was to encourage the growth of sectarianism in order divide the workers and peasants of Ireland. It would be an oversimplification to claim Britain invented this sectarianism, the tensions were already there but it provided the careful nurturing in which it grew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1798_in_Ireland

The sprit of the rising has never been forgotten, Irishmen and Irish women United to fight the oppressor, Protestant, Catholic and other religions fought together. This was something the British could never let happen again. This is why we have sectarianism today; it was something the leaders of the 1916 rising were mindful of when writing the Irish proclamation of Independence.

http://www.iol.ie/~dluby/proclaim.htm

The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

So the answer to why these people were killed. I have had this debate many times.

It could be argued they were Oppressive landlords, when the rising happened people vented their anger on those people. The people had suffered so much at the hands of the British, How much oppression will a person endure before they fight back?

They may not have been Landlords, and considered themselves Irish, Why then, were they not fighting with the United Irishmen? There are many questions.

Was it a group of Irish people with a personal grudge against there better off neighbors, maybe wanted their land? I would hope not but it cannot be discounted.

Whichever reason it should never have happened. It did nothing to serve our purpose, and aided the British in fostering hatred between the religions of this Island. Divide and rule, we allowed ourselves to fall into their trap. This is our shame. I am sorry for what happened to your forefathers. I am a proud Irish Republican, I am not sectarian, I have friends of all religions and none.
You should not allow yourself to fall into the same trap.

[tiggs]

I think im learning more about irish politics from this forum than I have ever known. I guess im not a political animal. If anything I am an intensely proud derryman, which cant be a bad thing.
Remembering the past and learning from it is a good thing. But we only get one shot at this and I for one, make the most of it, every second of every day.
If I can smile for a few hours every day never be hungry then im a happy camper.
So for all you catholics, protestants, republicans or unionists out there, im sending you a big happy smiley hug feel the love... go on feel it

there now, isnt that better

[MFL]

So for all you catholics, protestants, republicans or unionists out there, im sending you a big happy smiley hug feel the love... go on feel it

Now just when things were getting better here you go and leave Poor Daka out...

there now, isnt that better

Much.

[daka]

Thanks Tiggs

You omitted 'Buddhists' but I imputed myself in the crowd anyways, and the hug was received and appreciated

Marcie

Thanks for the history lesson. It supplements my family folklore and random reading nicely.

William

One more comment about that unfortunate incident for your ancestors:

If one takes a wider view of the drama one can see clearly that the crown was responsible for the division in the church and the establishment of Protestantism in the first place. My history is generally shoddy but I seem to remember that it all had something to do with some British king's sexual/marital wishes conflicting with Rome (the established Catholic rules). One of the Henrys, no? If they left your ancestors alone in their Catholicism they would have remained Catholic and that particular drama could not have unfolded. So if one traces the conventional cause and effect relationships, the king caused the tragedy of which you speak.

Buddha Bless

Sean

[tiggs]

Didnt leave him out, buddists are always happy and feeling the love Serves them right.
I think I may be a secret buddist, somewhere in the back of my head Oh and if your at the brazen head before me on the 14th, mines a cranberry with a big dash of tequila