Why do you post?
johan, as you were
i don't get what you mean. i didn't involve myself with the Olde tiffs, only the new Insult from Miranda...it is their fight...is this what you are insuating?? i should have stuck up for Miranda the poetry judge? this is not a positive or productive place to be...i have better things to do with my life...like write Bad poetry and clean my nails and listen to LC...bye.
Lovely to see you again, Johann, showing up for such finery of purpose. Amazing how forces gather to come out of the woodwork. Speaking of Leonard, I haven't seen you around these parts commenting on him much for a long time....and I've gone quite [relatively] silent since I saw you last. Actually, my too-many, too-nice, complimentary posting was the complaint.
What I don't take delight in is watching what you've just described being done by another, and had something to say about it. Malicious would fit the nature of the post I responded to, or was there an uplifting, positive purpose I missed? Destruction? Strong word for the result of being met head-on in response to insults flung. Over here, there's an advisement offered by many parents to their children, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Even allowing for freedom of speech and the right to say something "authoritatively" negative, why is being challenged to support your position such an onslaught? Beyond that, why was that challenge never, not even with a single word, attempted to be met? Those are answers that at this point I have no interest in.
It's quite manipulative to attack others en masse and then purport yourself to be the bloodied victim [and to have been victimized] by the fallout that occurs with someone refusing to just let it pass. Maybe you'll get a pint or two [or three] out of it, as well, as will a few others. So, all's well that ends well. Enjoy.
~Lizzytysh
What I don't take delight in is watching what you've just described being done by another, and had something to say about it. Malicious would fit the nature of the post I responded to, or was there an uplifting, positive purpose I missed? Destruction? Strong word for the result of being met head-on in response to insults flung. Over here, there's an advisement offered by many parents to their children, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Even allowing for freedom of speech and the right to say something "authoritatively" negative, why is being challenged to support your position such an onslaught? Beyond that, why was that challenge never, not even with a single word, attempted to be met? Those are answers that at this point I have no interest in.
It's quite manipulative to attack others en masse and then purport yourself to be the bloodied victim [and to have been victimized] by the fallout that occurs with someone refusing to just let it pass. Maybe you'll get a pint or two [or three] out of it, as well, as will a few others. So, all's well that ends well. Enjoy.
~Lizzytysh
My habit is to wander among the delightful poems of the poetry section, breathing in the air of sheer loveliness of words. I only came to post on this section because my conscience is bothering me. I read in one of Lizzytysh's posts in this thread the following words to Miranda:
"You didn't like it yourself when you thought I was criticizing Andrew when I said he knows he has talent ~ and you addressed it immediately."
I feel compelled to say that it was Me that asked Lizzytysh (On the tunes and flowers poem) if she was insulting Andrew McGeever. Miranda never said a word to Lizzytysh. Miranda only told Andrew, Congratualtions on his upcoming event.
So Lizzytysh is wrong, it was me, Vesuvius that questioned her. Not Miranda. I don't want Miranda to take the blame for something I said. I will go over to the poetry section to the tunes and flowers thread and add a statement.
"You didn't like it yourself when you thought I was criticizing Andrew when I said he knows he has talent ~ and you addressed it immediately."
I feel compelled to say that it was Me that asked Lizzytysh (On the tunes and flowers poem) if she was insulting Andrew McGeever. Miranda never said a word to Lizzytysh. Miranda only told Andrew, Congratualtions on his upcoming event.
So Lizzytysh is wrong, it was me, Vesuvius that questioned her. Not Miranda. I don't want Miranda to take the blame for something I said. I will go over to the poetry section to the tunes and flowers thread and add a statement.
I would sincerely hope no one stops posting their poetry on the poetry section whether it is good, bad or otherwise. That is the sole purpose of that section, express yourself. Who knows someone's poetry may be discovered.
I don't want this to go on any further, because I think this thread was started in fun. I hope Young dr. Freud is keeping good notes.
Back into the woodwork. I am sure you meant that remark with utmost kindness Lizzytsh.
I don't want this to go on any further, because I think this thread was started in fun. I hope Young dr. Freud is keeping good notes.
Back into the woodwork. I am sure you meant that remark with utmost kindness Lizzytsh.
Linda
Vesuvius ~ I've already answered you in the poetry section regarding your clarification. I'll thank you over here for it, as well. As I've said there, it doesn't really affect what I've said and meant with Miranda, as it only had to do with the immediacy of response by others to something perceived as negatory. That it was you and not her only reenforces that this is something common to expect....and my comments to her were totally and directly related to what she initiated here. Your ["her"] posting only occurred to me much further into the exchanges and was cited only to demonstrate the immediacy of responses by people to what others may say.
".....express yourself. Who knows someone's poetry may be discovered."
".....started in fun. I hope Young dr. Freud is keeping good notes."
"Back into the woodwork. I am sure you meant that remark with utmost kindness Lizzytsh."
Perhaps YDF will branch out in his notes and address your passive-aggressiveness ~ all in fun, of course
.
".....started in fun. I hope Young dr. Freud is keeping good notes."
"Back into the woodwork. I am sure you meant that remark with utmost kindness Lizzytsh."
Perhaps YDF will branch out in his notes and address your passive-aggressiveness ~ all in fun, of course
.Please see my response to you, Lizzytysh over on the Poetry section. You call your false statement of no importance. Why?
You were being negative to Andrew, a poet. You just will not admit it. You are guilty of the same thing that you accuse Miranda of. I have never said anything bad to the poets. But I am certain you will begin accusing me of something.
You were being negative to Andrew, a poet. You just will not admit it. You are guilty of the same thing that you accuse Miranda of. I have never said anything bad to the poets. But I am certain you will begin accusing me of something.
Well, Vesuvius, no ~ I do not want to fight with you. "But I am certain you will begin accusing me of something" suggests that you may want to fight with me.
I did NOT call YOU "common" ~ there is a huge difference between people, behaviours, and tendencies of people in general. It was the latter that I was referring to. It is not uncommon for people to respond to something they perceive as being negative being said about someone they admire.
I also did NOT say that my [false] statement was of "no importance." I said the fact of who said it was a moot point, as the point itself had to do with immediacy. The point was made, regardless of who said it. It also was irrelevant [not you "irrelevant"] that I had mistakenly ascribed it to her instead of you, as I was not using it to demonstrate "viciousness" and was using it to demonstrate that she [who turned out to be you] "defended" immediately an admired someone, who was perceived to have been "wronged." Your statement/my statement did not play a part in my attention to Miranda's initial posting or any subsequent postings by her. It was cited to make the point that, "What I'm doing, defending the poetry contributors, you would do yourself [and already have]" and even though I was wrong in its not having been her, I would hope that she would defend people she believes in or feels close to for whatever reason.
You may think I'm "guilty" of what I'm accusing Miranda of.....however, I have not blindsided everyone [with the exception of Andrew, whom she states is the only poet in the poetry forum], from my perspective, and was stated by me in that fashion. I said, "Andrew knows he has talent." If you don't agree with this, and you think that Andrew doesn't know he has talent, fine, that's your choice. I said it. I meant it. I still mean it.
I did NOT call YOU "common" ~ there is a huge difference between people, behaviours, and tendencies of people in general. It was the latter that I was referring to. It is not uncommon for people to respond to something they perceive as being negative being said about someone they admire.
I also did NOT say that my [false] statement was of "no importance." I said the fact of who said it was a moot point, as the point itself had to do with immediacy. The point was made, regardless of who said it. It also was irrelevant [not you "irrelevant"] that I had mistakenly ascribed it to her instead of you, as I was not using it to demonstrate "viciousness" and was using it to demonstrate that she [who turned out to be you] "defended" immediately an admired someone, who was perceived to have been "wronged." Your statement/my statement did not play a part in my attention to Miranda's initial posting or any subsequent postings by her. It was cited to make the point that, "What I'm doing, defending the poetry contributors, you would do yourself [and already have]" and even though I was wrong in its not having been her, I would hope that she would defend people she believes in or feels close to for whatever reason.
You may think I'm "guilty" of what I'm accusing Miranda of.....however, I have not blindsided everyone [with the exception of Andrew, whom she states is the only poet in the poetry forum], from my perspective, and was stated by me in that fashion. I said, "Andrew knows he has talent." If you don't agree with this, and you think that Andrew doesn't know he has talent, fine, that's your choice. I said it. I meant it. I still mean it.
Last edited by lizzytysh on Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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George.Wright
- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
Johann, your right.
The proud papa speaks
the poetry section is shallow and has no peaks
the baby is ugly and the mouse squeeks
the poetry is as enigmatic as Twin peaks
and none of the truth of the master, ye shall seek
but we all make up this board
and none i do hate
for we were all gathered together here in a kharmic fate
to cyber our chalkmarks on the electronic slate
not to destroy or light the bottom branch of the rose
some in secret their names do propose
Miranda i need the pint of lethary
no more from any of you, this argy bargy
poetry is the song of love and living
Please let all of you, let us keep giving
Love to you all on this blessed board................Georges
The proud papa speaks
the poetry section is shallow and has no peaks
the baby is ugly and the mouse squeeks
the poetry is as enigmatic as Twin peaks
and none of the truth of the master, ye shall seek
but we all make up this board
and none i do hate
for we were all gathered together here in a kharmic fate
to cyber our chalkmarks on the electronic slate
not to destroy or light the bottom branch of the rose
some in secret their names do propose
Miranda i need the pint of lethary
no more from any of you, this argy bargy
poetry is the song of love and living
Please let all of you, let us keep giving
Love to you all on this blessed board................Georges
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
And what about Mythologies and Oranges, Lizzytysh?
Andrew McGeever posted a heartfelt cry that he thought he had no talent. And George and I tried to comfort him. And then you came on and sneered that Andrew was not running himself down. We all knew what you meant by that. You were implying that Andrew was fishing for compliments. You then tried to cover your tracks when you were questioned about it. Saying it was just a statement of fact. What a lot of hooey.
I don't think you love the poets as much as you claim to love them.
Andrew McGeever posted a heartfelt cry that he thought he had no talent. And George and I tried to comfort him. And then you came on and sneered that Andrew was not running himself down. We all knew what you meant by that. You were implying that Andrew was fishing for compliments. You then tried to cover your tracks when you were questioned about it. Saying it was just a statement of fact. What a lot of hooey.
I don't think you love the poets as much as you claim to love them.
What about Mythologies and Oranges, Vesuvius? It's a poem I happen to love. I also happen to love Tunes and Flowers. I also happen to have made Andrew and whomever else read my postings well aware of my feelings on these two, excellent poems.
How you and Georges perceived and responded to something said by Andrew, does not dictate how I perceived and responded to something said by Andrew, nor to your response[s].
"I don't think you love the poets as much as you claim to love them." How I feel about the poets [including Andrew] and their material is not affected one way or the other by my comment that Andrew knows he has talent.
How you and Georges perceived and responded to something said by Andrew, does not dictate how I perceived and responded to something said by Andrew, nor to your response[s].
"I don't think you love the poets as much as you claim to love them." How I feel about the poets [including Andrew] and their material is not affected one way or the other by my comment that Andrew knows he has talent.
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George.Wright
- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
Bugger ending the thread ..... I still have something to say .
I'm certainly not a poet and I have no aspirations in that direction so I'm going to resort to quotes:
Danté Alighieri said 'The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of moral crisis remain neutral'
I wouldn't exactly call this a time of moral crisis, but I do believe that if one feels passionately about something that passion should be expressed - and Lizzytysh has achieved the expression of her passion in an articulate and well reasoned manner.
A statement was made by an apparently unqualified person about a very personal matter - poetry - and I believe if this person had qualified her statement with 'In my opinion........' this thread would not have become half as entertaining as it has. As it is, she did not back up her statement with any valid reasoning, whereas Lizzy backed up every statement with well thought out reasons.
I am totally unqualified to deliver a critique on anyone's poetry, but in my very humble opinion poetry can be judged only by each individual who reads it - if it elicits an emotion within me I appreciate what it says - if it leaves me cold (to use an expression that only another South African will truly understand) then I have nothing to say about it. It may mean much to someone else - and the agony of creation that the poet experiences has been mentioned so I'll say no more about that. I have not yet found one poem in the members' poetry section that has left me cold - on the contrary.. but this does not qualify me to publicly state that it's all good or all bad or somewhere in between.
Although I have not posted much here, I do on the odd occasion look into the various threads and it seems to me the problem is one that I have encountered many times before in various situations - a strong woman who is not afraid of her passion and intensity is condemned by those who perceive themselves as having a weaker voice, or who have not yet come to terms with their own passions or who perhaps envy an eloquence of expression that they are not able to match.
Lizzy - please don't stop posting. I disregard what I'm not interested in, and I do appreciate your posts, not only for their articulation (as in 'expressing in coherent verbal form') but also for the delightfully entertaining responses they elicit
I'm sure you all know or have heard of Breyten Breytenbach - if not for his poetry then for his political exile in Paris during a particularly horrid period of South African history: ..'Thinking is a hallucination induced by the drug of reasoning' Would that we were all abusers of this 'drug'.
He also said about 'The South African art of reading news' - but I think it is generally applicable: 'between the lines, from the corner of the eye, with sections of the mind whitewashed'.
I shall leave you with another quote, from the New York Times: We are not here to see through one another. We are here to see one another through.
With love and hugs to you all
Jo
.I'm certainly not a poet and I have no aspirations in that direction so I'm going to resort to quotes:
Danté Alighieri said 'The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of moral crisis remain neutral'
I wouldn't exactly call this a time of moral crisis, but I do believe that if one feels passionately about something that passion should be expressed - and Lizzytysh has achieved the expression of her passion in an articulate and well reasoned manner.
A statement was made by an apparently unqualified person about a very personal matter - poetry - and I believe if this person had qualified her statement with 'In my opinion........' this thread would not have become half as entertaining as it has. As it is, she did not back up her statement with any valid reasoning, whereas Lizzy backed up every statement with well thought out reasons.
I am totally unqualified to deliver a critique on anyone's poetry, but in my very humble opinion poetry can be judged only by each individual who reads it - if it elicits an emotion within me I appreciate what it says - if it leaves me cold (to use an expression that only another South African will truly understand) then I have nothing to say about it. It may mean much to someone else - and the agony of creation that the poet experiences has been mentioned so I'll say no more about that. I have not yet found one poem in the members' poetry section that has left me cold - on the contrary.. but this does not qualify me to publicly state that it's all good or all bad or somewhere in between.
Although I have not posted much here, I do on the odd occasion look into the various threads and it seems to me the problem is one that I have encountered many times before in various situations - a strong woman who is not afraid of her passion and intensity is condemned by those who perceive themselves as having a weaker voice, or who have not yet come to terms with their own passions or who perhaps envy an eloquence of expression that they are not able to match.
Lizzy - please don't stop posting. I disregard what I'm not interested in, and I do appreciate your posts, not only for their articulation (as in 'expressing in coherent verbal form') but also for the delightfully entertaining responses they elicit
I'm sure you all know or have heard of Breyten Breytenbach - if not for his poetry then for his political exile in Paris during a particularly horrid period of South African history: ..'Thinking is a hallucination induced by the drug of reasoning' Would that we were all abusers of this 'drug'.
He also said about 'The South African art of reading news' - but I think it is generally applicable: 'between the lines, from the corner of the eye, with sections of the mind whitewashed'.
I shall leave you with another quote, from the New York Times: We are not here to see through one another. We are here to see one another through.
With love and hugs to you all
Jo